ContactJuggling.org

ok, ed i have been invited to ija and am thankful for the opportunity. i am not paid for this performance, and i will require week away from work or more so it is still something that comes at a cost to me. mostly i am doing the ija because i think they need a dose of heavy manip technique out there, i am happy to deliver and i could never ever ever afford to go to an ija if they didnt invite me like this.

i guess i'm confused because the bjc is your festival, i think of it like our madskillz fest where are the jugglers give everything they have to make it awesome because, collectively, we want it to be awesome here.

sad to hear that they are stuggling to find contact teachers. makes me wonder wtf happened to the scene out there.. used to be one of the most generous communities i knew

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i do want to backtrack a bit. i do not thin ed should ever be pressured to teach for free. he is light years beyond most of us in terms of understanding this discipline and that knowledge is extremely valuable. i totally respect if he does not think it will work for him, i would be sad only if bjc could find nobody to teach contact. then something would be really wrong

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backtracking again. you are right ed, had ija not payed for my travel and expenses i would not have taken the gig. simple. i see your point about bjc...

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This is a hugely great thread. Yes, most of these fests are thrown by volunteers - even gala show performers are often breaking even. Even though it's infrequent that I pay to attend a juggling convention any more, there is no way in hell I would count conventions in that category of "gigs on which I can make money," especially since they're on weekends when I make most my money. For comparison, even if it costs me nothing to attend a festival I'm probably still losing $150 in money I'd make freelancing around home.

I do feel like that's a huge injustice to both experts (who deserve compensation for their time and effort) and to non-experts (who deserve to attend a fest that isn't run by pissed-off, burned-out organizers). After all, if juggling conventions don't even bother scaring up a budget with which they can pay instructors, they're always guaranteed to be having instructors flake in order to work for clients who will actually pay us what we're worth. In fact, this time last year was exactly when I started my "I won't write on my calendar in pen unless there's a bid" policy, when I had to back out of a juggling convention's gala show for a client who was paying me a month's rent for a show.

So yeah, I feel like getting indignant about a convention that doesn't pay its instructors is like, well, I don't know, getting mad that politicians don't care about poor people. I'm not shocked if a fest doesn't pay its teachers. However, if a fest is inviting you to come teach, they better be giving you a bid above zero, or they're doing exactly what Ed said - asking you to pay to work for them, which is basically a big (if inadvertent) "f**k you."

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Don't even sweat it Sorry to get under your skin like that too, but what's done is done.

I don't begrudge people teaching for free, I don;t care what gets taught, whether it's of any standard or not, I don't care who goes where for whatever price, after all, life isn't fair. the performer with the lowest travel expense isn't gonna get given the difference between their costs and the performer with the highest travel expense. I'm not even going to BJC, and had no plans to this year either, so whether I was offered a free ticket or not I won't be teaching there anyway.

People ARE gonna teach there, let's face it. the BJC will not go without workshops. people in the hall will want to show others how to do things, people will want the respect of having been the person to teach however many people whatever thing it is, whether it's one on one, or to a massive group. The BJC IS all about sharing skills (and for some, it's about showing off and gaining status). If there is no contact juggling workshop, you can guarantee that at least there will be a load of late night Jam sessions... I do hope that the Jam sessions get made public, and that people understand it's a free for all affair and are welcome to join in and ask questions, but hey, whatever happens, happens.

I just get annoyed that big conventions, National 'flagships' as it were, still expect stuff for free from their customer base. it shouldn't work that way. Granted, I have no idea how the EJC open stages work out... although the EJC does guarantee an international audience... and there is an element of prestige for performing at the EJC, but it's not unheard of for there to be some dire shite on those stages...

If people here are going, feel free to teach, I'll not judge. I do however judge the BJC for taking advantage like that, by expecting something for nothing from the outset, instead of being grateful when people attending do offer their time. Like, if workshops were run by guests, what's to stop a guest teaching in a guest like state, IE, totally wasted, and not really giving a s**t? I certainly wouldn't stand for it if I was attending the workshop. hmmm... not sure that even makes sense... I guess what I mean is you get what you pay for, innit.

They don;t even need to pay them lots. just a free or even discounted ticket, or some food for the convention, or just something to show their gratitude for helping add to the convention.

And as for me being light years ahead, and being someone to look up to and listen to... Ain't nobody here the best BBoy. we just manifesting s**t at a different time...

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Do it slowlier, Okido?
Installer of Warp Drive Technology. Sending out Ripples and making Waves.
Chin high, chest puffed, we step right to it. The choice is; there is no choice but to pursue it.

Hey, I just got my ticket. I'd be happy to do a workshop as I'd like that experience and as I would be going anyway, I would offer. But as I've been doing it for only 2.5-3 years I feel my skill level would not be that great. But the contact jugglers always find each other at these things and if anyone wants to come ask questions or try something out then I'd always be up for it. Just come find me

Ed, I just want to pick up on some what you mentioned in an earlier post about people 'not doing it for the love' as I'm not sure that everyone is aware of how much volunteering actually is involved in the running of the BJC (and has been involved over the last 25 years). It's ran by a different volunteer team each year, there is no company running the BJC as an ongoing concern. It's run by the jugglers, for the jugglers. It usually makes a small profit (said to be generally less than what would pay one of he organisers minimum wage for the work they put in if they took it.) and occasionally makes a loss. If it ran on a non volunteer basis the costs would really ramp up. Currently it's still within reach of a lot of jugglers/students/families or to put it another way it's not that more than an average camping holiday.

I'll cover some of the people you mentioned below.

The Venue?
Are being paid for the event to happen. Money tends to be saved as volunteers are often involved with housekeeping, litter picking first aid etc. The Venue and show venue tend to be the biggest expense. It's not easy to get suitable venues and the chance of getting a free one would be next to impossible.

The security?
Often a requirement of the venue and/or liscence to use professional security. The security costs are reduced through volunteers on badge control and marshaling halls and bigtops.

The traders?
Pay a fee to the BJC to trade, have a volunteer coordinator that lessens the stress for the org team, often set up the trading space and assist with site set up as they are there before the official opening, distribute promo material to their mail order customers, provide prizes for the games, raffle, BYJOTY etc. Not all of the traders cover their costs. Some traders bring staff some don't, some of those work for the same rate as they would back in their shop, some work for expenses and/or a ticket, some are relatives or friends helping out.

The publicity?
Facebook, twitter? The website tends to be hosted on on volunteered server space. The website design and maintenance tends to be in house.(I believe). Juggler mail gets flyers to other events in the leadup to the convention. There is no paid PR company involved.

The Gala Performers?
Are paid, sometimes at a discounted rate and often provide workshops as well as perform. As the BJC and Israeli juggling festival are often nearby in time acts have had the expenses shared between them in the past.
Open stage performers aren't paid, rengegade turns often get beer. Renegade and open stage organisers and compares as well as sound and light techs and riggers tend to be volunteers. Gala performers have also been known to take part in renegades and open stage.

The catering?
Quite often part of the venue contract. Other caterers pay a pitch fee or percentage of profit or a deal to feed crew.

The Bar.
Sometimes integral to the venue. sometimes provided and staffed by outside mobile bar companies Last years bar was ran and staffed by volunteers so that a more 'juggler friendly' (and non price gouging) bar could be ran.

The Parade.
Volunteer coordinator and liaison with the local council and police. Face painters volunteer time and skills, marshals for the route.

Pre Reg.
System set up and maintained by volunteers.

Site Management
Volunteer site manager and team. People willing to put physical hard graft into getting the site ready, stringing lights, running water pipe within the campsite moving tables and chairs. Running generators and heaters etc.
The erection of Herras fencing takes a team of volunteers around a day of moving and constructing around 1k of fencing panels and blocks. This cuts down on venue costs and when done correctly security costs. It's physical, demanding work.


Some of the professions of people who have volunteered and directly used their work skills (and paid to attend) at past BJC's include performers, tutors (from community/youth circus types to international circus school level teachers), stage managers, sound and light engineers, a tax adviser, IT professionals, artists, graphic designers, musicians, doctors, a physiotherapist, events managers.


I'm sorry you feel slighted that the orgs didn't single you out for thanks for having ran a workshop Ed. Generally if you've been asked specifically I'd imagine you'd get thanked by the person who asked you and those attending your workshop. Other than that you might have had to be happy with the general thanks for volunteers as given at the business meeting and generally at the public show. (oh and the badges, recently these have been used as a thank system for volunteers along with food/drinks crew hoodies etc. as well it's just that the thanks wont always come looking for you but it does get given, just bob along to the volunteer point and claims your booty)


Again I'd like to reiterate the orgs are asking for people who are going to the convention who would be willing to volunteer time during the convention to run a workshop. Not demanding that anyone has to run a workshop against their will. No f**k yous intended. Usually the request for workshops would go out a bit closer to the event when there's a better idea about who will be attending but this year there was a hope to get some confirmed in time to make it into the programme.
My part in this has been to approach the diaboloists (having been asked if I would by one of the workshop co-ordinators as I mentioned in an earlier post). I'm not a member of the org team, I'm not getting anything out of it other than the knowledge there is going to be a decent set of workshops across the skill levels and a better time for the diaboloists and fair play to the diaboloists they came through in spades (and will be getting my thanks again at the convention).

Ah hey Sean, by the way, please don't get the impression that I took any offense at your invitation here BTW. As a festival organizer myself, I know the unenviable position of asking people to work when you've got no budget. Disclaimer: I was recently invited to teach and perform at a (non-juggling) convention for the low low bid of -$250. That's right, they called me specifically to teach a bunch of movement-arts workshops while also expecting me to pay $250 for the festival pass...

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I think you're misunderstanding me slightly sean... you don't need to defend anything... I don't feel personally slighted at all

I knew I was volunteering for the workshop... and yes, the attendees thanked me, but it felt as if it was an expected occurence by the orgs... as if the teaching was my priviledge, instead of my volunteering... and it's this part that I feel needs to change.

I don't expect to have to go and ask for thanks in whatever form it comes... and if it is a case of going and asking for something like that, then the people who are entitled to it should be made aware that this is what's gonna happen. it would be nice if the people who gave workshops were treated like the other volunteers, but they're not. the other volunteers might get the badges, or the food, or the merchandise, or the discounted ticket, BUT AT LEAST THEY GET SOMETHING. Apparently giving a structured, quality workshop isn't seen as giving up much time and effort... (and by quality, I mean anything that isn't just a skillswap session, not trying to say I'm the best teacher before I get misinterpreted again, because I'm far from brilliant.) "Oh, you're teaching a workshop? when you're done, go over there, and get a badge" - Not so difficult, is it?

the 'general thanks' at the end of the public show... not really personal is it? It doesn't come across like they know all the people that have really helped out... just sounds like it's something said to cover asses.

Yes, searching for workshops this early instead of nearer the time does seem like they are asking for and expecting something for nothing, rather than asking the people already going if they are willing to volunteer their time or not. There is a difference. Yes, I see they are saving time. also seems like a decision that wasn't really thoroughly thought through though...

It seems as though a lot of things are taken for granted these days. maybe it's due to inexperienced organisers because the team changes every year, or it gets lost in the sheer amount of stuff to be done, or it's just how stuff is done these days, or for whatever reason, I don;t know why it happens, but it's not on. And no, I'm not pointing fingers in anyone's direction here, and yes, i do generalise before anyone takes me personally again.

and please, give me some credit, I know traders pay to set up a pitch. they also make money doing so, they are a business after all. I know gala performers are paid for, and that they teach as well, that is called getting your money's worth, I know the venue and security and fencing and such has to be paid for. I know there are licencing conditions, I know a lot of manual work is done by volunteers, and that open stages and renegades are unpaid, but these people still get something in return, no matter how much of a token gesture it is, ie whether it's a shiny badge, or food, merchandise or discounted ticket. Granted, Renegade is a 'for the craic' affair, but that's a given, as it is the nature of renegades... People who teach don't get rewarded as the other volunteers do, is my point.

Now, the shiny badges... do ten hours volunteering, and you get a badge. perform or organise a show, you get a badge. be involved with the crew/set-up, ground management, you get a badge... teach, you get nothing, because it's not ten hours worth of work, nor are you providing an act on stage, or helping organise anything... see the flaw here? Why is this so hard to explain to people?

_________________
Z = Z^2 + C
Do it slowlier, Okido?
Installer of Warp Drive Technology. Sending out Ripples and making Waves.
Chin high, chest puffed, we step right to it. The choice is; there is no choice but to pursue it.

I haven't had much contact with the organisers, save for an email but I think this has turned into a really interesting discussion though, and I'll send a link to it to Emily and see if will help any. I certainly think Ed has raised many good points about how those who run workshops are treated in general and it would be good if we could start to change that.

On the particular point I quoted above, I didn't get the impression that they were trying to save time, rather it seemed to me that they were trying to efficiently estimate and allocate workshop resources. For my part, I see this as a good thing - I've been to conventions where workshop boards have seemed to be in near constant state of flux, and I think everyone benefits from a well ordered workshop schedule.

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"Oh, the places you'll go! There is fun to be done! There is mischief to have. There are games to be won.
And the magical things you can do with that ball will make you the winning-est winner of all."

-...when you're done, go over there, and get a badge - Not so difficult, is it?

I think that's down to the isolatedness of running a workshop. As in you don't generally get approached, asked to do a workshop there and then in the same way you might get asked if you'd be up for helping to move some pallets, there isn't that direct contact with the crew where you would be told 'Thanks, thats a great help here's a shiny badge/bob along to the volunteer point at reception and get yourself a badge/food whatever'. It's unlikely that you'll get approached upon completing a workshop if only due to the number of workshops

For what it's worth I'll pass that on to Emily about some workshop providers feeling that they aren't considered as important/ workshop providers falling out of the reward/thanks scheme.

'Now, the shiny badges... do ten hours volunteering, and you get a badge. perform or organise a show, you get a badge. be involved with the crew/set-up, ground management, you get a badge... teach, you get nothing, because it's not ten hours worth of work, nor are you providing an act on stage, or helping organise anything... see the flaw here? Why is this so hard to explain to people?'

Run one workshop, get a badge (and thanks), you get a badge if you want one, honestly.

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I don;t think it would be so difficult to implement...

For example, at the moment the format is usually a workshop board, go and write your stuff on it whenever you like, however you like, for whenever you want to teach. The board is usually situated nearby the organisers/volunteer/main desk station. workshops are written up without any one involved in the organisation having any idea what's going on. As this is how it happens, it is easy to see why workshops get taken for granted/happen without being taken into account, whatever you wanna call it, and eventually become expected to appear all by themselves. It is because of this that it is not organised, as in, not prebooked. trying to organise this time round though, does change the perspective on things a bit.

A couple suggestions for new ways of doing things:

Whoever is on main desk at the time, can do the writing of things on the board... thus giving a chance to say 'nice one, thank you, come get a badge when you're done'... Thanks doesn't even need to be said, just giving the badge would have the same effect.

Or there can just be a note on the workshop board saying something like 'Teaching a workshop? get a badge when you're done' which would save having to give someone something extra to do.

Just some ideas... no attacking intended, just constructive criticism

_________________
Z = Z^2 + C
Do it slowlier, Okido?
Installer of Warp Drive Technology. Sending out Ripples and making Waves.
Chin high, chest puffed, we step right to it. The choice is; there is no choice but to pursue it.

''Teaching a workshop? get a badge when you're done' which would save having to give someone something extra to do.'

That's a good idea I was thinking that and similar in the program etc would be good ways to get the idea that the workshop providers are appreciated.

I've seen arguments for and against workshop boards being written up by the orgs religiously or the more freeform way it tends to happen. (as in a board that the co-ordinator has written in pre offered workshops then being posted for attendees to add to) I think It's more inviting and inclusive if anyone can writeup an offer at any time especially in response to the 'workshops wanted' list. If you are considering offering a workshop but there is a queue at the desk then sometimes it's easier to put it off/never get around to it. But I take in your points about how it would be able to show the apreciation/weight given to workshops.
I Don't know what way they plan to run the workshop sheet but I'll do my best to pass on your thoughts Ed. (Bearing in mind I'm not an organiser/part of the team)
If anyone has strong thoughts about any aspect of the BJC then I'd recommend attending the business meeting as a good step to getting your thoughts considered by future organisers of the British and other conventions. (I know you won't be their this year Ed but send a proxy )

The prearranged asking/ seeding of the workshop list has always happened to one extent or another. Usually as a general call for offers via fb, the official site and various community sites plus via direct approach/word of mouth.
I think prearranging makes sense for the reasons iMark mentions. And at any event where there hasn't been some level of prearranging it tends to lead to a patchy list


And just to chance my arm since I'm here I thought I'd mention BYJotY and open stage in case anyone is considering those


*British Young Juggler of the Year competition (tied in with a performance development and advice scheme). 2 to 5 minute routines, cabaret/stage/street act and a seperate 'best trick' section for sub 21 yr olds who are 'britishish' I don't think there has ever been a contact juggler enter this (or a 'street act').

** Organised by Matthew, devilsticker/contact juggler from London

Quote:

Hello everyone who's coming to BJC,

Sorry I've been a bit incommunicado recently, but I thought I'd better
announce that we ARE going to be having an Open Stage again at BJC this
year. If you have an act that you would like to show to, what was last
year, a pretty packed house, we'd love for you to perform it.

It will be run again, in much the same way as the EJC Open Stages and last
year's Open Stage, so for those of you who don't already know, the running
order is determined ahead of time, it is run like a proper show, with a
compere, but the acts are based on who tells me they want to perform.

It is currently scheduled for the Thursday evening, (start time TBD) and
there will be a meeting on Thursday morning that you will need to be at if
you want to perform. If you can't make it by then, but will be there in
time for the show, please let me know in advance by emailing
openstage@bjc2012.co.uk. In order to be in the show you WILL need to be at
the convention by Thursday 4pm at the latest.

If you want to perform, please have a think about:
* the lighting you need (although we'll be in the Cirque Normandie tent,
so I suspect what options we have here will be limited)
* your music (in particular, please try and avoid bringing music on an MP3
player and even more so on a phone - the ideal is to have it on a CD, as
this makes it fairly easy to manage for the sound tech)
* how you want to be introduced
* prop layout - what you want the stagehands to do.
and, obviously, get practising!

If you have any questions that you need answered before the convention,
please email openstage@bjc2012.co.uk, and please feel free to come and
find me at the convention itself.

I look forward to watching your acts (actually, if it goes anything like
last year - I'll just have to satisfy myself with the video as I'll be
backstage again - but I'm sure everyone else will be looking forward to
it).

If anyone would like to volunteer to be a stage hand for the show, again,
please feel free to email openstage@bjc2012.co.uk.

Cheers

Matthew

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Nihil est...In vita priore ego imperator romanus fui

I am going to the BJC and will teach workshops if they want it. and i will do it because i love contact juggling.

After reading the entire topic, i want to participated as well, as i am hosting the Dutch juggling convention. It basically comes down to this. And therefore i understand also the festivals side.

I have budgeted to spend around 50000 euros. And if i am lucky i might gain 27000 from tickets and around 3000 from other income, so there is a gap op twenty thousend euro that needs to come from somewhere. Sponsers, subsidi or cuts in everything imaginable.

And btw, this gap is normal when organizing festivals, not just bad planning :p