ContactJuggling.org

I have a confession to make. When I first started CJing, I really disliked most of the dance/CJ combinations I saw. Even by the time that MoM came on the scene, I would watch the stuff they released, or the stuff from people like Wes Peden, Stefan Sing, etc., and I really could not relate to it and tried to distance my style from the modern or hip-hop dance style integrations. As my tastes matured, through practice and watching more videos, I began to appreciate the intricacies of dance and dance/CJ combos... and now, nearly a decade later, I'm finally caving in and trying to learn some of it myself. I've also come to realize that there's really no such thing as CJ separate from dance. Everyone has their own style, whether it be flowing or stoic, and their motion (or lack thereof) always deeply affects the performance.

So my question is this. Now that I'm dabbling in the more body-oriented CJ, am I at risk of losing audiences like my younger self? For those of you who have been doing it for years, do you find your audience by and large can relate to it just as well as classic CJ? I doubt many non-jugglers or non-dancers in America would sit through a Stefan Sing show, but my guess is most audiences would love the styles of people like Ryan, Elsie, Ed, etc. Is this the case, or can it be off-putting? Does it affect the average age of the audience?

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-Lirnyk/Scott

"Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose." - Douglas Adams

You and me both. Colin called it the Darkside...the internal processes that come from thinking in dance terms are already blowing my mind.

Questions...are you doing it for you or for your audience? Are the audience there for you or the ball? Without you the ball is pretty dull.

Follow it where it goes the rewards are HUGE, hell if you get a gig and you're worried just bust out the Labyrinth s**t that you can do in your sleep.

My last gig I did some of my newer 'Holding a Ball' stuff and some more vanilla contact, both went over well.

What I've noticed is this, since I stopped thinking about juggling and started letting myself dance, everything got easier and more fun. Isolations isolate, body rolls roll and I don't have to do anything.

(side note, I disagree about the stefan thing. Mainly because Schubertvariationen is the video I show to people who don't know juggling goes beyond eating an apple and it makes jaws bounce off the floor)

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Now all gatherymost to amuse it and have a tilty elbow or a nice cuffle-oteedee - Oh Yes!

"A little bit of neither..."

I agree with briney, stefan is the only, read, only, non contact juggler I have shown to non juggly folks, that has elicited as strong a reaction. my lady friend has seen lots of juggling (she has to deal with me on ministry every day) and she says it is her favorite. If anything I think adding movement will only serve to increase your audience, because it adds a completely new dimension to your work, allowing for the potential for story telling, emotional narrative, and spacial dynamics, which may have been missing, or significantly less, before. Go for it.

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il faut pas avoir peur de ta liberte.

Dance and acrobatics are wonderful and the very best compliment to CJ, but they are also exclusionary when it comes to older contact jugglers. A post 45 year old person attempting to pop and lock looks a bit silly no matter how good they are at it. I'm 35 and trying to learn a few dance moves right now but I'm under no illusion that I'll be able to use them in a decades time.

I see CJ as an art form with countless possible iterations. The core component is a ball (or balls) moving in space, but I don't think the framework around that core *has* to be dance. It can also extend to many other performance arts - acting, storytelling, comedy, musicianship, mime, clowning, inspirational speech, poetry slam, preaching, magic, sport etc...

I love what Stefan and Elsie and Jea9 do... and I think it's the pinnacle of the art as it stands right now, but I also fear that fostering the idea that CJ and dance are inseperable is a potentially limiting viewpoint. I actually want to see innovation away from dance and into other areas of entertainment as well.

Thanks for everyone's input and support so far. Brine, I've begun noticing that myself, getting "in the zone" more and more these days. I guess I haven't really tried to show Stefan to others for fear of a poor reaction, but I'll give it a shot!

OcT, I can definitely see where you're coming from, but I think the only disagreement we have is in a definition of the word "dance." I'm using it broadly defined, and for lack of a better word, as an established awareness and intentionality of the rest of your body that is not in contact with the ball. That intentionality can be popping and locking, modern dance, just plain ol' walking, or standing still as a statue. CJ mixing into even more mediums, like comedy, storytelling, etc. would be absolutely fantastic! The last dozen practices I've had I've dedicated a fair amount of time to just learning how to walk... not pop, not step in beat, just putting one leg in front of the other in as controlled and purposeful fashion as I could. It's doing wonders for my performances, not because people perceive what I'm doing as dancing, but because the whole act looks more controlled and my body is augmenting the movements of the ball.

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-Lirnyk/Scott

"Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose." - Douglas Adams

It's not just about popping with a ball, it's not just about dancing with a ball.

For me at the moment it's about understanding the dynamics of contact, especially at a fundamental level. The more knowledge I have of the dynamics of my body the easier the 'juggling' side becomes. There are certainly different paths into it. Tai Chi, yoga, alexander technique, gymnastics, parkour etc.

But dance for me has been the most accessible, allows the most freedom of expression and allows for integration with a prop in a really intuitive way.

I agree that there are a hell of a lot of performances types that can be incorporated, but on a fundamental level I'm not sure that they all benefit your underlying technique. Anything that gives you an awareness of the physicality of your body, of the ball, of the space around you will improve your overall technique.

Watch Stefan's tangram routine for a mix of contemporary dance, mime, storytelling physical theatre, comedy with just a little bit of juggling thrown in for good measure.

Once you've seen the 'dance'/'juggling' connection it suddenly does seem crazy to think of them separately. The laws that govern them both seem almost indistinguishable.

And yes, I am referring to body rolling and multiball in exactly the same way as I am isolation. There is no separation in my mind.

*edit 'cos lirnyk posted at the same time*

We're at very similar stages I think, what you're saying sounds very familiar.

It's like I can see the smile, and pretty soon the rest of the Cheshire Cat is going to pop out before my eyes.

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Now all gatherymost to amuse it and have a tilty elbow or a nice cuffle-oteedee - Oh Yes!

"A little bit of neither..."

Thank you for your generosity, Briney, but while our brains may be occupying similar headspace, my body still has a lot of catching up to do to get to your stage. You're really rockin' it lately, I can't wait for those videos after you've seen the cat. (Side note: we should adopt a new standard on DotOrg. Reaching the next level of CJ is "seeing the cat.")

Also, yeah, I can barely separate the two in my head anymore. Props, body, etc. are all just extensions of the same thing, and movement flows between them.

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-Lirnyk/Scott

"Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose." - Douglas Adams

i like this thread.

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www.dawndreams.ca
www.thebuskingproject.com
https://twitter.com/#!/dawn_dreams

Good thread.

I would say that Matt Hennem and LCD were the people who made contact juggling into something super-interesting for the public to watch. The combination of dance/contact styles makes for pure illusion; something that catches the eye of any passerby. Matt is just TOO GOOD for anyone not to watch him.

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www.ryanmellors.com
www.ministryofmanipulation.com
www.piryokopi.net

Ahh, yes I understand you guys now and I wholeheartedly agree.

Don't mind me... I'm just a bit miffed that I didn't discover CJ back when I was young enough to make a go of it in the dancey fashion without rupturing something.

edit: I need to write more than a "ditto" smiley

Ed had brought up awhile ago about adding some kind of section for specifically dance and movement. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8270&start=0 I think there is enough of us here that would love to have that. Personally, its going to take a freakin long time for me to develop anything in this area really worth watching. I know that it is along this line of finding my own personal dance/movement with cj that actually has a gigantic draw for me. I think there is huge value to this area. I would love to have a section for those of us who are really itching to explore the personal style and be able to push, inspire and encourage each other along the way of attempting to develop and find this for ourselves.

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CasualArcane.com
aether-arts.com

No one cares about popping or locking. That can be irrelevent. The Darkside eats dance styles for breakfast. The reasons to be on this boat are not entirely external. It is about making a shift in thinking. The way you feel. That expression is what makes the intent and moves you.

Dance is perhaps a misleading term. you're thinking terms of actual dance moves. If you can still contact juggle post 45 then you will still be able to rock this stuff. It's in its infancy. So perhaps your arms will fall off if you practice it.

/Space warp

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With fushigi, Contact juggling gravitates like an Ungody Sphereplay nose fight inside a post box full of oranges

Surely "dance" represents any form of movement that reflects the music it is being performed to.
I don't think there is a maximum age for introducing fluid body movements invloving trunk/legs/movement of the body in space with the ball/prop.
Perhaps thinking of it as "rhythmic mime" will help those of us not in the flush of youth *ahem*[self delusion] Mind you, 38 is still young isn't it?[/self delusion]

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"There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes."

Hello to Jason Isaacs

Stephan sing isn't young anymore. I'm not in my 20's either. I think this age thing is more irrelevant than MTV makes it out to be.

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www.dawndreams.ca
www.thebuskingproject.com
https://twitter.com/#!/dawn_dreams

The interesting thing is CJ is such a new art form that we're experiencing the very first generation of aging CJ'ers. Even Michael Moschen is only just approaching, what, fifty(ish)?

It's certainly going to be interesting to see what the more elderly performers come up with when they can no longer rely on grace or fluidity for their acts. I'm excited... maybe we'll get a whole new subgenre...