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You've managed the one hand flips and now you're practicing chest rolls? So you're keen, great! There's nothing wrong with learning tricky stuff early on (in fact I'd encourage it) but hopefully you're practicing a lot of the easier moves as well. Some people seem to get a chest roll in a couple of weeks. Lucky them! It took me about a year, though that was with a 70mm acrylic. The point is, if you're easily discouraged (you mention your earlier 'aborted' attempt at learning) you really need to be practicing some moves that will be more immediately rewarding as well.

If you want to see some progress quickly, start practicing the inner arm roll (you can also start a chest roll with an inner arm roll too). That is, hold the ball in your hand and roll it down to an inner elbow stall. Most people can roll the ball to this point the first time they try if they do if fast enough, though stalling takes a bit of practice, as does slowing it down. I feel that this is a rewarding move to learn early on, because it doesn't take that long to get, and the basic control you learn will help with other arm rolls and body rolls as well.

Of course, you're obviously interested in the chest roll, so keep practicing it. But if it's the ONLY thing you're working on, it might still take you a few months to get it, and you will have given up by then.

Sorry for potentially going a bit off topic here, but I don't think I could improve upon the chest roll advice given above.

chest rolls are easier than butterflies IMO

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thanks!!! its true!

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A lot of people say something similar. It just seems that the chest roll is a move that some people get really quickly and others (like me) take a while. I still don't feel that confident with it and can only do it one way. I find BTN much easier, but most people say it's harder. Although I tried it once since I got my 100mm and smacked myself in the side of the head so I'm waiting for my body rolling ball and hopefully I can get used to the large size with that and go back to acrylic.

But I certainly agree with the subtext that the butterfly is a more difficult move to get than it's given credit for, particularly the 'proper' figure 8 style butterfly. Still, it's such an important move for most styles of cj that I think it's almost essential to learn it early on, and most people can get a rudimentary throw-and-catch windshield-wiper pretty quickly, so it gives something to build off. The problem with a chest roll is that there is no intermediate ability: you can either complete an entire chest roll, or you can't.

Not strictly true. You can break chest rolls down into a large number of component moves just like you can the butterfly.

If you are talking about things like elbow stalls, then I would disagree based on my personal experience. I think the momentum of the moving ball makes a big difference to the way a chest roll is executed. For example, a forearm roll to an outer elbow stall goes much further out on your arm than a chest roll because the centrifugal 'force' or the ball mean that it would fly off if you tried to execute it like an elbow stall. It needs to roll slightly more on the inside of your arm (More precisely your arm needs to be slightly more tilted inwards). The faster it moves, the further your arm has to be tilted inwards.

I'm not saying that an elbow stall doesn't help. I think any extra skills using relevant body parts with similar motions will help with general control, but it's not the same as with a butterfly where you can start with a catch-and-throw and gradually make the throw smaller and smaller until you have a windshield-wiper, and then gradually start adding the wrist and elbow movement to make a butterfly. So basically you can learn moves that prepare you for the chest roll, but once you actually start attempting the roll, it's pretty much training wheels off. Plus. Cradle to elbow stall is not that hard, but I think any other component moves would harder than the chest roll itself (I don't know because I haven't learn those).

In terms of component parts I'd say you can pretty much "retrieve" a ball from the chest roll path at any point... so effectively you can practice quarter "chest" rolls, half chest rolls, three quarter chest rolls, or any other increment that takes your fancy.

Also the path isn't as strictly set as you suggest. With time you will be able to shift the path as you wish, for example over your elbow stall points or inside them, over the upper or lower chest, or even just stop it on your shoulder. If it flies off your arm at the outer elbow stall point that doesn't mean it was the wrong path, it means the ball was more under the control of gravity and momentum than under the control of the juggler. A slow and controlled enough roll can take just about any path you want it to (I cite Luminous Fractal and Kyle as evidence A )

!!!!!!!!!!

I find cradle to elbow stall nails (assuming outside elbow stall). Cradle to elbow roll is OK, full arm roll is OK.
What tips do you have for cradle to elbow stall?

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Hello to Jason Isaacs

True

This is true, but if we're talking about trying to achieve a chest roll full stop, the full chest roll with somewhat of a high speed is going to be easier to get. But yeah, you've got me thinking I should probably learn to do the sort of chest roll you're talking about.


If you can do a cradle to elbow roll, all you really need to do is practice balancing on the stall point. Once you can do both of these, all you really need to do is slow the ball down enough as it approaches your elbow that you can 'catch' it at the stall point.

I can do all of that and it's phoquing hard! Much harder than getting even 2/3 of the way with a chest roll!

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Hello to Jason Isaacs

What sort of ball are you using? A heavy ball helps create the stall point by making a 'well' in your flesh. I find it much easier now that I have my 100mm than I ever did with my 70mm or 3" acrylic. I can imagine it would be very difficult learning it with a stage ball.

Also, focus on what aspects allow you to balance on the stall point. You may be doing something different during the roll. For example, I find that having my forearm too close to (or too far from) my chest puffs the flesh up near my elbow too much and the stall point is in a different spot and much harder to hold. If you have a similar issue, then maybe when you are rolling the ball you instinctively bring your arm close to your chest than you would when practicing the stall point by itself.

If you are in exactly the same position when you reach the stall point as you are when you practice the stall point by itself, then you know that it must simply be speed control that is throwing you off. If so, then there's not much advice I can give other than to keep practicing it. Perhaps your arm rolls are too fast and you're having trouble slowing it down towards the end. If so, then you need to practice performing your arm rolls slower. Forget about actually keeping it at the stall point for a moment, and just practice you arm roll in a way that causes the ball to come to a stand still when it reaches the stall point. Once that is second nature, you can then focus on keeping it at the stall point at the end of the roll.

There is also a stall point closer to the actual bone of your elbow. It's a very different move, but you might be interested in that too. Palm down, arm straight out in front of you (elbow not bent at all), and you shoulder and humerus rotated inward so that the little hollow next to your elbow is on top. The roll itself is much harder I find, but the stall point is much more solid.

Octavo, what are the specific stall points you would suggest breaking it down with? I can stop it at the elbow stall and then perform the rest of the chest roll from there. I could probably go from elbow to elbow with a bit of practice too. But I wouldn't even know where to try to stall it at the shoulder, nor do I know if there are even more points you might stall it along the way.

Hey Ballzac,

I wasn't suggesting trying to stop the ball at stall points (though technically the whole body is a stall point if you've got a fine enough micro balance (...I haven't )).

What I meant is that you can retrieve the ball - literally pick it back up into a cradle - from almost any point along the chest roll path.

As it's going up the starting arm and onto the near-side pectoral, you can use the opposite hand to retrieve it.

After it crosses the mid-point of the chest it gets a bit trickier because you have to use the same arm to retrieve it as you used to send it.

Sorry, I'm not sure how to word this clearly... if I have time this week I'll see if I can make a video instead...

Ah, I getchya. Yeah, I do this by accident sometimes, lol. usually I'm doing, for example, a chest roll from right cradle to left cradle, and somehow I miss my left elbow entirely and end up sort of going from chest to wrist. It usually happens quite smoothly though, and to the untrained eye it looks like it was deliberate

This is really all you need..

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