ContactJuggling.org

I think this subject has come up here recently, but I'm going to broach it again.

After my turn at the bjc open stage last week, I was asked if I'd be interested in performing in shows at a couple of one day uk conventions later in the year. I got in touch with one of the organisers, and amongst a few other details, he brought up the subject of payment.

Now, I hadn't given money any real thought - quite frankly I'm still a little giddy at the idea that anyone might want me to perform - and my initial reaction was that I should to write back saying that I'd do it for free. My next reaction was that would probably be the wrong thing to do. My reasoning is that if I say I'd do it for nothing, I'm essentially saying that my performance is worth nothing, and that by inference, other people's performances are also equally worthless. I don't want to devalue anyone's contribution, my own included.

Now, this is hardly one of life's great dilemmas. It's just that I've been contact juggling for myself for so long, that the notion of actually getting paid, or even just discussing money, feels strange to me, even when the sums involved are small.

I'll do the gig and take the money, but I'm curious as to whether anyone else has felt the same way about such things.

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"Oh, the places you'll go! There is fun to be done! There is mischief to have. There are games to be won.
And the magical things you can do with that ball will make you the winning-est winner of all."

http://www.shouldiworkforfree.com

I used to hate discussing money. I used to hate drilling elbow stalls, too. Both get easier with practice, especially since doing the business of art wins you magical prizes like bags of groceries, phone bills, and (eventually) rent checks.

Best advice I got from an old juggler: if every bid you offer gets accepted, you're asking too little. I've doubled my rates a few times since I moved here and I'm still getting more work than my inability to co-locate allows for. And if you get a number that feels like you're asking too much, divide it by the number of hours you practiced since your last paid gig and you may be in for a shocker

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http://www.gravitydefiance.net

I can't speak in terms of getting paid for juggling, but I can speak in terms of charging for freelance graphic design work and for the comedy performances my wife does.

Richard is dead on. 1) It gets easier the more you do it, and 2) you are most likely under-charging.

My wife gets approx $75-100 for a 30 minute show. I would presume a paid CJ performer should earn the same. And this is the amateur end of stage performing. Semi-professional comedians charge between $100 and $400 for a 30 minute show and the (non-famous) touring pros get thousands depending on what business party or event they're performing at.

Get yer money in, you're worth it!

Love or Money?

Sounds like a job for Frank Torpedo!

<3 Eurobeat

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Oh... love and money! The eternal fight!

Can't talk CJwise (yet) but I always say I would do anything related to drama and theatre for free, because it's my passion, and I love it sooo much! But then for the same exact reason I must charge for what I do, otherwise I wouldn't be able to live out of it, and I couldn't do it as much as I do, because I would need a different job to survive, and that would take my time!

My point is, when you love something so much, you have to value it, and give it the credit it deserves. Even if that means discussing money in the meantime...

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Send me your pillow, the one that you dream on, and I'll send you mine

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http://www.gravitydefiance.net

For what it's worth, I usually only get paid enough to cover my travelling expenses when I do convention shows.

Also, well done for working so hard and pushing yourself to the level you've reached, you deserve the recognition you're getting!

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One Love, one heart
Let's get together and feel alright

I would disagree. more on that later, i gtg to work

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www.dawndreams.ca
www.thebuskingproject.com
https://twitter.com/#!/dawn_dreams

If I were you, I would charge:
1. price of travel
2. food (or meal tickets)
3. expenses like cab/gas money
4. your time (think of what you make in your day job, you wouldn't do that for free, would you?)

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You control the inertia, it doesn't control you.

calculate every hour you've ever put into contact juggling and wonder ~ if I spent that time training at a university, what would I owe?

*note that performing for one hour energetically feels like 8 hours of work

I talk to Ryan about this every single day. Such a huge topic... so hard to squash into a post (especially with half a brain because the other half has been taken over by snot from this cold)

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www.dawndreams.ca
www.thebuskingproject.com
https://twitter.com/#!/dawn_dreams

Seen people do 12hrs for 3 days in a row at traffic lights. I just don't even know how that's possible. I'd die of something, heat stroke, fumes, run over, arms fall off, dunno what but it'll be something

I only ever done 3 hrs in a day. And that is contract gigs. traffic light I did 2hrs once . all of those contract ones, I would have probably pulled up for a 'break' at 2hrs in if it were left to me.

I know.. slacker.

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With fushigi, Contact juggling gravitates like an Ungody Sphereplay nose fight inside a post box full of oranges

Yup... quit the day job so I could work at this every day... so much as any of it could ever be referred to as "work"



Yeah, f'real? I think that getting into the groove gives you the energy it takes to stay out there. I'll do a 15-hour weekend at a festival, and that's just working, not counting just juggling in a field. Had a DJ set go seven hours once as well. And now I am staying up late after a show even though I am supposed to be up in like five hours to go busking and then do another show at night, so maybe you should not listen to me go on about lifestyle choices anyway

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http://www.gravitydefiance.net

yeah traffic lights is a lot different to hanging out at festivals. you're in the middle of a busy intersection not any lovely green space, the fumes are enough to give me a head ache after a few hours. The next day you can get a busking hang over.
Gotta handle your biz

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With fushigi, Contact juggling gravitates like an Ungody Sphereplay nose fight inside a post box full of oranges

some people are seriously hardcore. Longest I have made a busking day was 8 hours and I had a hangover for sure. I think it's a matter of getting tough tho.

Anyway, my point is, I've done 1 gig of 5 balls in my life. I had spend 2 years training it by that point and calculated for hour many hours/training hours I had to do this gig for. I practically made 0.25 cents to learn 5 ball for that one gig.

That being said, I made a couple hundred bucks that day.

Just because you love your job does not make it worth less than it would be if you didn't. If I loved being a lawyer and arguing for peoples rights, would I charge less because I loved it? Would it mean my work in school and training was less valuable?

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www.dawndreams.ca
www.thebuskingproject.com
https://twitter.com/#!/dawn_dreams

By not taking any money I can genuinely say my skills are priceless. I'm not being facetious - the reason I started this thread is because assigning a dollar or pound value to my efforts feels odd to me. Not wrong, as such, but it's a different way of thinking about things.

_________________
"Oh, the places you'll go! There is fun to be done! There is mischief to have. There are games to be won.
And the magical things you can do with that ball will make you the winning-est winner of all."