# ContactJuggling.org

Half dance, half juggling, half mime, half magic....I'm a contact juggler, not a mathematician
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 Posted: 25 Apr 2010, 20:58

Joined: 29 Sep 2004, 06:58
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su-nami wrote:
I would have thought that a fractal contact juggling would involve a move that is reapeated ad infinitum on a smaller and smaller scale, im not sure how you would do this but its an idea.ad infinitum is rather difficult when your a fixed size so maybe not....
Like the branch of a tree is to the trunk then your fingers are to your arm, no?
that's pretty much waves then...
hmmm...
fractal isolations like flower patterns getting smaller and smaller maybe? or bigger and bigger.

So geometry is space and points or points existing within a space, whatever demensions that space has, this space is 3d so the pattern is 3 dimensional, can you repeat patterns like that?
creating a box like Drew has in his box and useing that as the basis of the fractal pattern. Im not sure how all this will work im lookign froward to when you ahve figured it out some more or at least how to explain it some more

You're definitely thinking right...

But you're thinking in moves still. that's too much information. You can break it down even more. A move is made up of the ball being in and passing through (a) certain space(s) and remaining there for given time, thus giving us the illusion of speed of the ball as it moves to the destination. but if there are no moves, there are no destinations. The longer spent hanging on in a space before changing to the next makes it appear slower, when viewed at a faster frame rate, let's say.

So. the two basic pieces of information to put into the equation, are Space, and Time...

Oh Sh!t. That's HUGE.

_________________
Z = Z^2 + C
Do it slowlier, Okido?
Installer of Warp Drive Technology. Sending out Ripples and making Waves.
Chin high, chest puffed, we step right to it. The choice is; there is no choice but to pursue it.

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 Posted: 25 Apr 2010, 21:19

Joined: 08 Jul 2004, 13:36
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dawndream wrote:

what terrible topology. that'll never subdivide well. look at all those triangles in key places.

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With fushigi, Contact juggling gravitates like an Ungody Sphereplay nose fight inside a post box full of oranges

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 Posted: 26 Apr 2010, 02:43

Joined: 17 Feb 2007, 12:19
Posts: 670
Location: Springfield, MO
The idea of siteswap for toss works so well is because it is so quick to comprehend the basics.

I know and you know what your personal 3 height is. We know a 5 height is higher. I couldn't figure out how to do a 3b shower until I realized the notation was 51. I was tossing too low (at a 3 height) to give myself time to toss the 1! After that it was simple.

So lets say a notation -is- figured out for CJ. Is it comprehensible to a juggler without a math degree? Is it more effective at describing a move than say, prose?

I definitely feel it's worth the effort, but I'm not sure if it'll be useful in the end.

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 Posted: 26 Apr 2010, 07:21

Joined: 22 Oct 2007, 09:05
Posts: 1495
Location: here and there
Colin wrote:
dawndream wrote:

what terrible topology. that'll never subdivide well. look at all those triangles in key places.

Nerd!!!!

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 Posted: 26 Apr 2010, 10:16

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DeI2anGeD wrote:
The idea of siteswap for toss works so well is because it is so quick to comprehend the basics.

I know and you know what your personal 3 height is. We know a 5 height is higher. I couldn't figure out how to do a 3b shower until I realized the notation was 51. I was tossing too low (at a 3 height) to give myself time to toss the 1! After that it was simple.

So lets say a notation -is- figured out for CJ. Is it comprehensible to a juggler without a math degree? Is it more effective at describing a move than say, prose?

many people do a 4x,2x. I generally do a odds in showers as well.

anyway you touched the most important point.

siteswap is great. simpley because it facilitates ease of comunication. I have watched several times, 2 jugglers who do not understand siteswap, spend far too long, and fail, at trying to communicate a juggling trick to each other. < I believe siteswap would have saved them the headache on several occations.

so far I cannot describe +90% of all the contact juggling I do with this system.
It is complex. From my perspective, simply saying chestroll, headroll, outside elbow stall, or enigma is much more effective for comunicating the trick.

Basically, if it doesn't make it easier, quicker and simpler to comunicate the trick. then it defeats the point, and I probably won't use it.

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With fushigi, Contact juggling gravitates like an Ungody Sphereplay nose fight inside a post box full of oranges

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 Posted: 26 Apr 2010, 10:32

Joined: 29 Sep 2004, 06:58
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I think that Contact juggling can be represented with sine wave fractal curves.

like this:

_________________
Z = Z^2 + C
Do it slowlier, Okido?
Installer of Warp Drive Technology. Sending out Ripples and making Waves.
Chin high, chest puffed, we step right to it. The choice is; there is no choice but to pursue it.

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 Posted: 26 Apr 2010, 10:53

Joined: 08 Jul 2004, 13:36
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Location: Katakomben Berlin
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and if you eat loads of these it makes you better.(*has eaten them)

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With fushigi, Contact juggling gravitates like an Ungody Sphereplay nose fight inside a post box full of oranges

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 Posted: 08 Jun 2010, 08:59

Joined: 12 Aug 2006, 00:03
Posts: 42
Location: Australia
Look!_This_ChÃ¥nges! wrote:

You're definitely thinking right...

But you're thinking in moves still. that's too much information. You can break it down even more. A move is made up of the ball being in and passing through (a) certain space(s) and remaining there for given time, thus giving us the illusion of speed of the ball as it moves to the destination. but if there are no moves, there are no destinations. The longer spent hanging on in a space before changing to the next makes it appear slower, when viewed at a faster frame rate, let's say.

So. the two basic pieces of information to put into the equation, are Space, and Time...

Oh Sh!t. That's HUGE.

LTC, I agree with what you said earlier, it's awfully hard to put into words, I hope I'm understanding the stuff that we've discussed... But if I'm not what I'm doing could be completely different and working anyway...
Some of you're theories are of the chain and just plain amazing. The space and time of the ball and variances in these positions are what are important, and yet not... Same goes for the destination, I think the destination is not the destination until the ball has passed, I find not planning where the ball goes is important and gives more freedom to the motion of the ball in both time and space.
This has changed the way I think of the ball as a prop, and given me so much more scope to work with...

I also agree with the sentiment that a form of notation for multiball stacks and morphing it can work nicely, but for single ball rolling or 2 ball rolling or 1 or 2 ball isolations, notation aren't possibly really on a practical level... As much as I would love to see it (and the challenge is still out there) I don't think it is really practical to do...

I just prefer to play now... Meditate on possibilities, then just play until what I'm doing in someway resembles what I came up with in my head...

-Moka

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 Posted: 08 Jun 2010, 10:25

Joined: 29 Sep 2004, 06:58
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Moka wrote:
The space and time of the ball and variances in these positions are what are important, and yet not... Same goes for the destination, I think the destination is not the destination until the ball has passed, I find not planning where the ball goes is important and gives more freedom to the motion of the ball in both time and space.
This has changed the way I think of the ball as a prop, and given me so much more scope to work with...

I just prefer to play now... Meditate on possibilities, then just play until what I'm doing in someway resembles what I came up with in my head...

-Moka

Yes.

You get it

_________________
Z = Z^2 + C
Do it slowlier, Okido?
Installer of Warp Drive Technology. Sending out Ripples and making Waves.
Chin high, chest puffed, we step right to it. The choice is; there is no choice but to pursue it.

Top

 Posted: 09 Jun 2010, 02:47

Joined: 12 Aug 2006, 00:03
Posts: 42
Location: Australia
Look!_This_ChÃ¥nges! wrote:

Yes.

You get it

Domo Arigato Gozaimashita Sempai
*bows*

-Moka

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 Posted: 12 Nov 2010, 09:27

Joined: 03 Nov 2010, 10:47
Posts: 12
"Just make a video!"
"I don't have a camera."
"...Oh."
"How about we use this notation?"
"Okay!"

= the need

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 Posted: 12 Nov 2010, 09:38

Joined: 03 Nov 2010, 10:47
Posts: 12
That said, this system can be useful in concisely notating moves that you want to describe, especially given a few tweaks.

One simple tweak I would suggest is changing "&" to "-", as the ball is moving *to* the next location (and it just looks a little neater).

Also, some of the notation can be left out, making it easier to parse.
For example, you shortened "Cradle->inside elbow stall, half spiral around the pinky side" to "1&3IB", but it could just as easily be "1-3", as there's no way to do it (that I can see) besides with the "in" direction and "backwards" rotation.

Similarly, your
"Chestroll from and to cradle, windshield wiper, palm->inside elbow stall, inside elbow stall->outside elbow stall"
was shortened to
"1&5ISx1OS2US3IB4_F"
and can be further shortened (and simplified!) to
"1-5x1-2S-3-4"

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 Posted: 12 Nov 2010, 09:53

Joined: 03 Nov 2010, 10:47
Posts: 12
Learning_The_Code wrote:
Watch my next video, and try to add a notation to the one ball moves... your head will burst, because I'm not thinking of moves, I'm thinking of Fractals.

Hard to do without a link to the video! My best guess is that you meant this video:
which only has body-rolling from 1:45 to 1:50. I therefore assume that this is not what you meant, but I'll notate those 5 seconds anyway: 3-4-1-5x1-2B.

If you read this, and could link me the correct video, I'd like to try that too!

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 Posted: 23 Dec 2010, 06:04

Joined: 10 Dec 2010, 04:34
Posts: 19
Location: Seattle, Washington
This notation reminds me so much of my other hobby (Street Fighter).

I only hope that I never confuse the notations and end up throwing a fire ball at spectators or chuck an acrylic through my TV.

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 Posted: 23 Dec 2010, 11:44

Joined: 15 Feb 2010, 03:12
Posts: 222
Location: Toronto,Ontario
EvilCouch wrote:
This notation reminds me so much of my other hobby (Street Fighter).

I only hope that I never confuse the notations and end up throwing a fire ball at spectators or chuck an acrylic through my TV.

lol frame data or numpad motions?

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