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1b palm iso advice
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XraySpeX



Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 132
Location: USA, MT

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:38 pm    Post subject: 1b palm iso advice

This post got longer than I wanted it to... Cliff notes at end.

I just wanted to throw out some advice that might help people when working with a one ball palm isolations.

I was having alot of problems getting my left hand to isolate the ball smoothly but had no problems with my right hand. Today I decided to try something new and it helped me progress much faster.

Standing in front of the mirror I found that my left hand was very sloppy when attempting to isolate the ball. I decided to just try and isolate the ball by barely moving it around in a circle in my palm. I did not try to move the ball on my fingers or the thick part below my thumb. Just super small circles and continue to do that until it is isolated. The longer I did this the more I felt comfortable moving the ball around in my left hand. After I got used to the movement I allowed the ball to roll in a little bit bigger of a circle and continued to increase the size of the circle until I was isolating the ball in a full circle around my palm.

I just thought I would throw this idea out there for some of the people that are new to isolations... I think that it will help you!

Cliff Notes:
Start with ball in center of hand and attempt to isolate the ball while rolling ball in small circles. Increase the size of the circle slowly while attempting to isolate.

XraySpeX
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Ocean



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 106

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:06 pm    Post subject:

well... I'm having problems with my left hand as well... Thou, I got used to practice that iso with very wide circles, so much that I don't feel good if I don't roll the ball on the very edge of my hand. This helps me slowing down, and I guess it's a nice habit! But, well, I can't do it otherwise... If I try to make small circles, it gets more bumpy and less isolated than if I open them wide, even with my left hand.


It may be that I'm playing with too big balls though, as a 4'' can't easily roll in such small circles.


Should I give it a try with smaller balls?
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XraySpeX



Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 132
Location: USA, MT

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:52 pm    Post subject:

Hm, not sure. I did it with my 4'' acrylic... haven't tried it with anything else. I too was rolling it on the outside of my palm but decided to try to roll it in smaller circles first. It seems to work for me... maybe it is just me though...

XraySpeX
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Ryan
Ministry. Just like Colin
Site Admin


Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 1132
Location: Vancouver

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:10 pm    Post subject:

interesting. I'm not sure that small circles will help, because you still need to learn the proper technique for the outer circle of the hand.

Then again, you'll notice a difference in technique between some very good isolationists. Matt, LCD and Silver all have smaller circles that dont drop back very far on the palm. Colin, Drew and myself all use full, slow circles on the entirety of the hand. Jago uses a similar path, but he isolated the ball in the reverse direction of most of us.

hmm.
will have to think about this.
<where's my ball?>
r
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Colin
It's Fruit of the Loom



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 2050
Location: UK, Hastings

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:59 pm    Post subject:

I have small hands so I decided a long time ago that I'd need to make large circles so as to have a more visual impact. However making very small circles is something I do do on occation. As a warm up, 20 small circles seems do something. Not sure why. I can imagine if your left hand is not as educated like your right is in palm circles, it will have an easier time if your not rolling the ball out on the finger tips and palm heel, where you have even less sensitivity to ball controll. I can think of many reasons why this is good practice. I do agree that you'd still have to learn the technique for the larger path.

I do have a question, is it cleaner to make smaller circles with the right hand too?

I have found that even though I don't have quite as much controll in my left, it is much smoother. Or rather I haveto worry less about the bumps. But its balanced out by having to concentrate on the actual isolation more. If I put lots more work into it, it has the potential to be superior to the right.

I found doing both left and right at the same time, syc and asyc, taught me more than doing either singly could.
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betanes



Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 21
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:14 am    Post subject:

What I have found in my own practice, is that most of the time, and for most of the people, the weak hand is more "receptive" to learning than the other hand. I think that this is because our "dominant" ( ) hand is way more controlled... while the other one is more open to learn new things... her lack of control might be helpfull for learning hard-juggling-non-conventional-movements.... well, that's what i think.
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lawrens



Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 353
Location: France

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:24 am    Post subject:

Quote:
I found doing both left and right at the same time, syc and asyc, taught me more than doing either singly could.


I work this way too, giving my brain a really hard time!
As soon as the right iso is smooth, the left goes out of path, and vice versa
I have to concentrate a lot to be able to hold iso with both hands...

One other thing I found: working 1-ball palm iso with a 80 mm, lets say 1 hour...then pause...then work with a 100 mm.
80 mm demands real fine tunig to get it smooth, and when going with the 100 mm, my iso is way better...
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XraySpeX



Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 132
Location: USA, MT

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:27 pm    Post subject:

Oops, i hope i didn't make it sound like I feel like smaller circles are easier therefor you should just do smaller circles. I meant to say that if I start doing small circles and then gradually make the circle bigger until it gets rolling on the outside of my palm it seems to help.

When i do the small circle it definetely is not that smooth... I think that it helps to attempt it with small circles first because you get a feel for the ball moving around on your non dominate hand while keeping control of the ball. When I just go straight to rolling the ball on the outside edge of my palm I lose control of the ball quite often. By rolling in smaller circles I get a feel for the ball rolling in circles and learn to control it better. Once i feel I have control over the ball then I make larger circles.

Just wanted make sure people didn't think that I advocated small circles... it always seems to look better when you have your hand moving a bunch but the ball staying in the same spot. Seems to ruin the illusion if your hand isn't moving around much.

XraySpeX
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lawrens



Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 353
Location: France

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:10 pm    Post subject:

I begin CJ straight through 100 mm clear ball; What I found, and therefore helps me a lot concerning palmspinning, is that a 100 seems to cover more room in your hand than a 80 mm.
Then, when I began to work with the 80 palm iso, the ball gets acoutumate to follow the very same pattern than the 100, which by definition covers more of your palm...
This helped me a lot
But 80 mm is more demanding as to fine tuning...
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Colin
It's Fruit of the Loom



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 2050
Location: UK, Hastings

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:31 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
What I have found in my own practice, is that most of the time, and for most of the people, the weak hand is more "receptive" to learning than the other hand. I think that this is because our "dominant" ( ) hand is way more controlled... while the other one is more open to learn new things... her lack of control might be helpfull for learning hard-juggling-non-conventional-movements.... well, that's what i think.


yes. and I also think the muscle and tendon elasticity is physically different. and the energy controll has slightly different properties. It softer, Well mine is.... stupid chi making me sound like some new age lame-o.....
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Look!_This_Chånges!
Messing with Heads



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 753
Location: Underneath my ball

Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:22 pm    Post subject:

I can't believe I never added to this...

ANyhow...

I've recently stumbled upon another little secret to attaining a good palm circle.

Multiball.

Since practicing with seven/eight balls, my hands have opened out a lot more, and become flatter.

Before, in my right hand i never practiced pyramids much, because it was my weaker hand, and it was too easy to put the balls back into the stronger hand without thinking. Now I have at least three in each hand, i can't move them all to my stronger hand, so, my right hand has improved greatly. this has also made it easier for me to isolate one ball in my right...

So yeah... Multiball is the key...
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Colma



Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 10
Location: Seattle, WA

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:17 pm    Post subject:

This trick gives me trouble to no end. It looks so good when its pulled of correctly... I think that the multiball tip is the best to open up the hands, I've noticed improvement since I bought another 4 balls... Now I badly need a full length mirror....
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Imaginary Miny Prodigy
thinks inside the box



Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 608

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:06 pm    Post subject:

I need a mirror wall! That would be awesome!
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Colin
It's Fruit of the Loom



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 2050
Location: UK, Hastings

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:46 am    Post subject:

you can get like these 12"x12" mirror tiles in the states....in the UK I have just seen these.....

http://www.wallsandfloors.co.uk/product-details.php?tid=2620&cid=99

10cm^2


mirrors can get exspensive. But at £3.60 a square foot. I could spend around £30 and get some decent coverage. Easily portable when you move. and if you break one you can replace it for pennys.

or even.....mirror tile transfer......
mirror tile transfers

which look decent and for £8 you get a far amount. for £24 you get well enough. I would still probably prefer the tiles.

damn I might got do that yah know.....I am going to build my own isolation chamber.

cjers are moving out of the padded cells and into mirrored ones
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Typaer



Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 14
Location: Halden, Norway

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:29 am    Post subject:

While where still discussing 1 ball isos: Does anyone have any tips when making transitions from one hand to another, while isolating the ball?
Just doing the isolation is going quite well, but I still have some troubles transferring it from one hand the other.
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