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antispin is not isolation but...
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Pich



Joined: 22 Sep 2004
Posts: 27
Location: Paris

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:40 pm    Post subject: antispin is not isolation but...

I create a new topic for answer to the topic of Zoc and talk about theory.

For make an antispin, you need one object which is subject of two rotations with two différent centers of rotation.
If the object is two balls, the first center is beetween the two balls and the second center is obligatory somewhere else.
Please agreed this base.
Once again : the object can be deformed, the speed of the two spin can be completely bad the spins can be not round but the necessary and sufficient conditions of antispin are two different spin centers and two spin of the object in opposite way.

When I show in this movie the pentagone, it's for showing that with antispin, if your speeds of spins are well ordered, you can get small/short isolations in each corner of polygons. Then you can draw all the polygons that you want.
Actually, you made the polygon with short isolations by inside of it. The difference with polygons made in spin spin is that for it you need to break the trajectory of the big spin on each corner.
So you have two centers spin and one on each corner of the polygone. In antispin, you need only two spins for make the polygons.

You should deduct that isolation of one ball with two balls in one hand is a very carracteristic spin spin : first center of rotation is beetween the two balls ; and the second one is the center of the isolated ball ; it means half a ball farther of the first one.
Everybody must see that the fingers spin (the small one) is in the same way than the arm spin (the big one).

Let's go back to the antispin.
Now that we have the theaory, it's important to talk about the visuals effects.
When you do small polygons, instead of watching the side of them, you can watch the trajectory of the balls. With the pentagon, you can find a pentagram and with square you can find a cross.
tiiiin diiiiiin !!!

The "antispin square" is exactly the same thing than the "antispin cross". In the video, I turned the square of 90°. Then the cross is a « + » not a « x ».
What is so interested with the "square antispin" ?
The balls do lines (row and colomn) isolated.
With the pentagramm, the lines are done by the balls only in one way ; in the square the balls do round trip !
It's also why I practice antispin square with two different colors. (OK Lawrence ?;)

The last thing great about what I love : square antispin and isolation. It is that both are very closely corresponding.
I don't feel this sentence very english ; sorry for it and for all the other grammar and spelling mistakes.
As I told you, the isolation is a spin spin with the two spin centers separated by the size of half of a ball. More exactly it is the size of the radius of the small spin.
The square antispin is also two spin centers separated by the radius of the small spin. But there the spin are in opposite way.
Once again I precise that isolation and square antispin work if the speeds of the spins are well ordered. If you play with these speeds, you can draw many new things...

So in the video, I tryed to show the corresponding isolation of square antispin. I start with isolations then I just switch the way of my arm spin, I keep the same distance beetween the two centers spin and I get the cross.


That's it for today.
I'm sorry, I will not be abble to answer to this great discussion before end of august. I'm very happy that this subject works with many of you. We will create many news things together.
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daydream
MoM Mobsta



Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 725
Location: Vancouver

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:04 pm    Post subject:

YAY for anti spin! My brain was spinning after the workshop, and now I want to antispin EVERYTHING...

*remembers a toothbrush antispin I watched Kev, Kat and Simone do..*

he he
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lawrens



Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 353
Location: France

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:35 pm    Post subject:

Merci, Pich!!
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Pich



Joined: 22 Sep 2004
Posts: 27
Location: Paris

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:28 pm    Post subject:

a small surprise :


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Imaginary Miny Prodigy
thinks inside the box



Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 608

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:13 pm    Post subject:

oooooo, thanks Pich! You rule!
Antispin is eating my brain at the moment (in a positive way ) Too bad it's too hot to go practice outside now (36 degrees celsius). But let's keep on topic.

Antispin.
I'm still pondering the cross. That move is confusing. I think you did a great job in describing it though. I think your english is perfectly fine, i could understand anything you wrote.

Maybe we should submit your first post in this thread as an essay. or is that part of the forum broken too?

Thanks for describing it all!
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Jowze



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 129
Location: France

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:29 am    Post subject:

Wow, I just checked out this post...
These are awesome mind games and hypnotic patterns .
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lawrens



Joined: 12 Apr 2006
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Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:21 am    Post subject:

Yes, those patterns are quite exciting and very beautiful when watched...from above...
Unfortunatly, in a normal setting (with no camera above you), I can't see how one could present this concept to get the illusion...
The only solution would be to work vertically, but I'm yet to see someone who can palmspin this way!!
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Illumilatte



Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 468
Location: San Marcos, Texas

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:54 pm    Post subject:

lawrens wrote:
Yes, those patterns are quite exciting and very beautiful when watched...from above...
Unfortunatly, in a normal setting (with no camera above you), I can't see how one could present this concept to get the illusion...
The only solution would be to work vertically, but I'm yet to see someone who can palmspin this way!!


Could work if you were sitting down I think

Hm...part of my post got cut off.

What I meant to say was it could work if you were sitting down busking, but I don't know how you would do something like this for a stage show.
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Last edited by Illumilatte on Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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lawrens



Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 353
Location: France

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:30 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Pich is super-good. He can spin vertically.


Whow!
I didn't ear of that!!
Now I just die to see how Pich can palmspin vertically...

Now indeed this can be done in formal settings.

You're right, Illumilatte.
But for me, as for playing sitting, I tried, but I don't feel comfortable in this position:
I need to feel the ground under my feet to move around

What you said Ryan made me thinking and I recall a juggler who I have seen a vid from, and this guy experiments with mirrors on stage, playing with reality and reflected reality at the same time...
(Unfortunatly at the time I didn't mark this vid... )

I loved the idea and for sure this could be applied to cj and antispin alike!

Sorry, I was wrong, or at least too much in a hurry when I wrote this:
*The only solution would be to work vertically*

Now Pich, where are you??
Pleeaase, show us Vertical Palmspin !!!

Regards,
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Jowze



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:06 pm    Post subject:

Vertical palmspin ?Im a bit sceptic on this one , needs to be seen indeed. (Slippy hands thread )
Anyway this is true : Pich is super-good.
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Ryan
Ministry. Just like Colin
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Joined: 29 Jun 2004
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Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:00 am    Post subject:

Sorry... slight overexcitement. Pich's baton/stick material allows him to show his palmspinning concepts on a vertical plane. That's what I meant by 'he can spin vertically.' Didn't mean to cause confusion
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lawrens



Joined: 12 Apr 2006
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Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:06 am    Post subject:

Lol!
Too late, I'm already searching with spheres...
O_o
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lawrens



Joined: 12 Apr 2006
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Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:13 am    Post subject:

Ok, so far, I tried 2 potential ways to palmspin almost vertically.
They both work. (and neeed work) ^^

It wouldn't mean a thing to try to explain the moves with my basic english, better see what I mean...

On july 12th, I will get filmed with various characters and magical props (including cj, of course ^^)
This for advertising and communication purposes.

The good new is that I'll be able to get the rushes and commit some clips of myself.

Well, with over 300 posts and a year and half learning from you, fellow spherists, I think it's time to contribute a view of what you all brought to me!

Thanks!
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Jowze



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:17 am    Post subject:

Great Lawrens !
I want to see that !
And work on this vertical palmspin, done flowly that would rock .
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lawrens



Joined: 12 Apr 2006
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Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:33 am    Post subject:

Quote:
And work on this vertical palmspin, done flowly that would rock


Lol! You can trust me, that's what I'm going to do !!

The first method is so simple and ovious that I slapped my forehead with amazement !! >_<
I can't believe no one thought of it!!
Of course I can be wrong, someone else is perhaps working on it.
I mean I never watched it done.

The second method is based on a move I came across few monthes ago, which I called 2-ball, 1-hand almost vertical palmspin...^^
This one is not easy to do really, and is apparented to the basic move for the helical snake (see Drew's book).


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