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2b cross isolation (from Pich's anti-spin video)
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Zoc



Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 248
Location: San Diego, California

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:26 am    Post subject: 2b cross isolation (from Pich's anti-spin video)

I really like how this looks and its usefulness in 4b line patterns.
The general rule of thumb for isolations is to slow down, but how do you break this down? What keypoints do you use? I seem to be having some success with focusing on the center of the cross and make sure each ball hits that same point...

*edit- linked to Pich's antispin video thread
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Imaginary Miny Prodigy
thinks inside the box



Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 608

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:02 am    Post subject:

I think i understand the basic theory of Anti Spin, although i only have spent a very limited amount of time practicing it.
I wish i discovered it myself. Huge props to Pich for inventing it!

I think in theory, antispin works like this
(please, great isolationism cracks, verify this when you all return from EJC!). Get some snack and a chalice of your favo beverage because this will be a long one!

Spin-spin: Spinning two balls in one hand, and moving the hand in the same direction as the balls. So, if you are spinning the balls Clockwise, you move your hand clockwise also.

Anti-spin: The opposite of spin-spin. Again spinning two balls in one hand, but if you spin the balls clockwise, you move your hand counterclockwise.
Thus the name "anti" spin i think. Anti means against, so you move your hand against the spin of the balls.

Pentagone:

This is the shape of a regular pentagon, and also the shape of Pich's move.
Now the theory behind this is as follows (and bear with me, it will be hard to describe)
Imagine Pich has in his hand two balls, a clear one and a blue one.
In the air is an imaginairy pentagon. Each side of the pentagon is the size of two balls. The blue ball is on one of the corners of the pentagon. Pich rolls the other ball around, isolating the blue ball and orbiting the clear one around it. While the clear ball is moving, the blue ball is not!
Since the side of the pentagon is two balls big, and blue ball is at the corner, the clear ball will eventually reach the corner next to blue ball. At that point Pich stops! Now he starts to isolate the clear ball, rolling the blue ball around it. Soon the blue ball will reach the next corner of the pentagon. The blue ball gets isolated then, and the clear ball rolls around.
Repeat till your hands are exhausted or move on to the next move, the square. Important: notice the balls roll on the inside of the pentagon!!!!

Square

So, that's a picture of square.
Now, there is Pich again, with his blue and clear ball in one hand. In the air is an imaginary square. The sides of the square are again two balls big.. The blue ball is on one corner, and the clear one is orbiting around it. The clear one reachesthe next corner of the square. It's stops and gets isolated. Now the blue one orbits around, till it gets to the next corner. It stops, etc. You get the idea! (i hope ) The balls are rolling on the inside once again!

The Cross
This one will be extremely hard to put in words for someone who is not an english speaking person in real life like me. I hope you understand what i mean, and than i mean what you understand

A picture of a cross.
Now let's just imagine that that are not two crossing lines, but four separate lines who meet in the center of the cross. Each of those four lines is exactly the size of one ball.
As you can see both balls move from the line they are at, to the line of opposite of where they are now, thus crossing the center. They only roll in a straigth line it seems.
The concept is the same as in the pentagone and the square. One ball is isolated, the other one rolls. The only difference here is they don't roll a part of a circle, but in a straigth line forward. To make sure they roll in a straigth line, while the path they follow is round (the hand), the hand has to move in exact the opposite way of the rolling ball. It works like a isolation. If, in an iso, the ball moves to the left, and you move your hand to the rigth, the ball will keep still. In the cross it works as follows. The ball rolls to the front and to the left, for example. If you move your hand to the rigth, it will compensate for the roll to the left. The ball will keep rolling forward though. At the same time you isolate the other ball.
As the ball reaches the end of the cross on the other side, you isolate it and roll the other ball in the same manner. Rolling forward and around the ball, moving the hand to the other side so it only rolls forward and also isolate the other ball at the same time.
(i hope this is clear )

The rest of the video is a compilation of awesome patterns made when combining iso's , crosses in different directions and paces in both hands.

I hope i made it clear how i think antispin works!
Later,
IMP
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Cameron



Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 859
Location: Toledo Ohio

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:36 pm    Post subject:

*Cries* I wanna learn this sooo bad... lol ill figure it out some time but damn it would i love a super slowed down video explination... haha
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Fraxture



Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 644
Location: Central Ohio, USA

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:58 pm    Post subject:

Dude I can slow it down for ya. How do you think I get these moves down?
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Look!_This_Chånges!
Messing with Heads



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:36 pm    Post subject:

Anti spin in a nutshell:

Balls spin clockwise. Hand moves anticlockwise circle.
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Cameron



Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:11 am    Post subject:

hop to man! lol =) and you still need to call me damn it!
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Colin
It's Fruit of the Loom



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:33 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Huge props to Pich for inventing it!


he seems to have put in the most thought into doing in in multiball than anyone else I've seen. but Pich didn't invent it. Any poier will know all about antispin.
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Imaginary Miny Prodigy
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Joined: 18 Aug 2004
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:37 am    Post subject:

I didn't know that. But hey, i'm not a poier
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Look!_This_Chånges!
Messing with Heads



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:50 am    Post subject:

Yeah, I've been anti spinning for over a year now, with poi, sticks, balls and anything else I can get my hands on... My avatar, that's anti spin with fire poi.

Pich, I do have to give you props for reminding me of the beauty of anti spun balls, though!

First off, the way to break down that cross isolation (if you can call it an isolation) is to think about the four points, rather than the centre, or the cross as a whole. Move one ball to one point. then, move the next. eventually, get this as smooth as pich. then mess around with messed up timings (I love this on the video, Again, why I never did it I don't know...)

Ok, Geekery time. If your head is easily confused, or if you are in danger of a brain aneurysm, I suggest you stop reading now.

Anti spin can be applied to anything that is moving. The continuous palm-palm butterfly transfer, that can be antispun.This looks cool, and gives you a star shape in front of your face. As you are rolling the ball between your hands, notice the circle that the ball travels in. Now move the entire move in a circle, opposite to the circle that the ball is travelling in.

Chestrolls can be antispun. Behind the Neck rolls can be antispun. Every body roll can be anti spun. (I never said it was easy, however). It's just a case of moving your body in a circle opposite to the spin of the ball. the easiest way to do this would be to pirouette against the ball. Ta da! anti spin.

My next challenge: 3D antispin. Helical snakes will work so well for this, I believe... And I want to come up with a way of antispinning a pyramid in all directions, with both one hand and two hands, and all sorts of shapes...

2 dimensional antispin: Why keep it flat? Why have the balls spinning in a horizontal plane in front of you? why not in a vertical plane? why a 'simple' polygon? Why not a dodecahedron (sp?) for example? Well, the dodecahedron would become 3D antispin, but you see where I'm going. why not at your side? why not spiralling around your entire body? Why just four points? Why not two? or three? or ten?

Body waves and anti spin... Oooh... now there's something that would look pretty... You all know turbo and the broom, right? when he's snaking around the broom, that's anti spin. Yes, his body is anti spinning!

I really loved the mixing of spin and antispin... there's something else to play with...

Anyway... that's enough for the time being. There's a little insight into my mind, as well... Instead of thinking 'why?' think: 'Why not?' I also realise that a lot of this stuff won't be extremely aesthetically pleasing, I just like to satisfy the geek in me now and again.

It's time we took this contact juggling to another level. I'm sure there's an unlimited amount of untapped knowledge that we're missing. We have the ability, let's use it!
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Last edited by Look!_This_Chånges! on Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Look!_This_Chånges!
Messing with Heads



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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:00 pm    Post subject:

Double post, but oh well...

Adding to Imp's post earlier:

the square.

Imagine that square in front of you. you want to isolate a ball on each corner. doing this in spin will cause the balls to move from point to point around the outside of a square. doing this in antispin will cause the balls to move INSIDE the square. this is part of what makes it look a bit Messed up...
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khan



Joined: 16 Dec 2005
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:33 pm    Post subject:

This is so exciting: antispin has entered the cj world! Can't wait to see where this goes.
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Look!_This_Chånges!
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:17 pm    Post subject:

We've been doing it longer than the poi spinners...

We just haven't explored it and spent time pondering it properly until now.

I'm pretty certain in 'Light' there's a bit of antispin...
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Imaginary Miny Prodigy
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:03 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Yeah, I've been anti spinning for over a year now, with poi, sticks, balls and anything else I can get my hands on... My avatar, that's anti spin with fire poi.

Pich, I do have to give you props for reminding me of the beauty of anti spun balls, though!


I'm confused now. I thougth it was just crazy Pich who had this crazy idea of doing antispin. Man, i'm off to try this and apply to every move possible.

Quote:


Ok, Geekery time. If your head is easily confused, or if you are in danger of a brain aneurysm, I suggest you stop reading now.

Anti spin can be applied to anything that is moving. The continuous palm-palm butterfly transfer, that can be antispun.This looks cool, and gives you a star shape in front of your face. As you are rolling the ball between your hands, notice the circle that the ball travels in. Now move the entire move in a circle, opposite to the circle that the ball is travelling in.


this took a while for my mind to understand, and for my hands to do it. Looks cool though Makes my arms tired also

Quote:
Chestrolls can be antispun. Behind the Neck rolls can be antispun. Every body roll can be anti spun. (I never said it was easy, however). It's just a case of moving your body in a circle opposite to the spin of the ball. the easiest way to do this would be to pirouette against the ball. Ta da! anti spin.


I see. I bet an antispin chestroll wouldn't look that special though. It would look nice because of the rest of the bodymovement involved I guess.

Quote:
My next challenge: 3D antispin. Helical snakes will work so well for this, I believe... And I want to come up with a way of antispinning a pyramid in all directions, with both one hand and two hands, and all sorts of shapes...

2 dimensional antispin: Why keep it flat? Why have the balls spinning in a horizontal plane in front of you? why not in a vertical plane? why a 'simple' polygon? Why not a dodecahedron (sp?) for example? Well, the dodecahedron would become 3D antispin, but you see where I'm going. why not at your side? why not spiralling around your entire body? Why just four points? Why not two? or three? or ten?


Now this is something that i don't understand. Curse my bad understanding of english! Helical snakes is the move where your roll from elbow stall up to palm, with the ball "twirling" around the arm, rigth? Hmmm i see how that can be done antispinning. Now to do it is a whole other story.

Do you mean, with 3D antispinning, that the balls aren't just rotating but also moving up and down like in the helical snake? And than with 3Dantispin, do you just move against the rotation or do you also do something with the up/down movement? Or both? I see a lot of possibilities here....

Too bad i don't know what a dodecahedron is I googled it but came at math sites, was a bit too confusing for me. wanna explain?

Quote:
Anyway... that's enough for the time being. There's a little insight into my mind, as well... Instead of thinking 'why?' think: 'Why not?' I also realise that a lot of this stuff won't be extremely aesthetically pleasing, I just like to satisfy the geek in me now and again.

It's time we took this contact juggling to another level. I'm sure there's an unlimited amount of untapped knowledge that we're missing. We have the ability, let's use it!

You are sooo right!
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Look!_This_Chånges!
Messing with Heads



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:32 am    Post subject:

I forgot to mention things like anti turn...

Anti turn, is moving your whole body against the spin.

The best example of this is the isolated/pirouette behind the neck roll.

The ball is spinning one wa, and you are moving against this spin to isolate the ball. Anti turn.


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Fraxture



Joined: 06 Apr 2006
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:13 am    Post subject:

And don't forget Anti-Kirk and Anti-Spock!
We will have to use marker and drawn little Goatees on those acrylics when they are in Anti mode.
Sorry, up early here answering a call into work. Loopy.
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