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Imaginary Miny Prodigy
thinks inside the box



Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 608

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:10 pm    Post subject: Iso's Advanced Questions

So rigth now I'm working on polishing up my iso's, especially in both hands at the same time. I have some questions about it, and i would like the real good isolationists to answer like Ryan, Drew, LCD, Colin etc.

A few questions i have:
I'm learning the clawed iso (the one handed one, where you just rotate your hand around the ball) with 3.5 inch orange stage balls, i believe they are mr. Babache, but that doesn't matter i guess.
I'm doing pretty well but i have a problem. As soon as i try it with my 3 inch acrylics, it doesn't look as "fixed" and cool. Do i have to relearn complete for every new ball? Or will it come with a little practice? Is this because of the different weigth and size?

Second:
When i do palmspinning isolations with both hands at the same, the hand i'm looking at is doing pretty fine in iso-ing, but through recording myself i found that the hand i'm not looking at isn't isoing as good... Why does that happen and how can i solve it?

Last:
How long does it take to get them real good? It is a never stopping proces, isn't it? I don't care btw i love practicing them.....

Thanks,
Imperistan


Last edited by Imaginary Miny Prodigy on Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Moon



Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 93
Location: Rome, Italy

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:58 pm    Post subject:

Hi ^^

maybe i can try to help you I'm not enough good like ryan, colin and the others..but I can do isoes quite good..

- for greg's grip, doing it with acrylics is a little more difficult, because it doesn't "grip" and so the ball is not easily fixed..try try try..in front of a mirror if you can and if you like greg's grip, why don't you try sanpedro's one?
- for this problem..I look the balls I'm isoing. Fix your eyes on the isoed balls, and if you want, try to palmspin with closed eyes: you'll be able to do palmspinnings without lookin' and so you can look only the isoed balls. I do this for isoes in 2,3 and 4 balls isoes.
- I think contact juggling is a never stopping process. If you play, you can only improve your sklls, remembering to have fun


hopin' I helped you see you soon ^^

(forgive my english >__<)



moon
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tobyw



Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 119
Location: Essex, UK

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:28 pm    Post subject:

[quote="Moon"]

and if you like greg's grip, why don't you try sanpedro's one?

moon[/quote]

Whats that? Is that a real move or a joke I don't get?
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Imaginary Miny Prodigy
thinks inside the box



Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 608

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:37 pm    Post subject:

it is a real move. Look in the moves section, it's a really nice iso...

and damn did i say greg's grip... whoops, I do not mean that one.
i mean the clawed one where you just grip the ball and rotate your hand around it.
there is no gif of it on this site, but i think you get which one I mean. In the iso essay ryan points you to the matt hennem promo video, in the opening shot you can see it.

As for the palmspinning, i think i was not clear enough. I do single ball palm spinning iso in both hands, isolating them both so i can't look at both the isolated balls.

Thanks for answering that fast!
Imp

BTW Moon I think you are qualified from what i've seen (the discovery channel vid) you are really good!


Last edited by Imaginary Miny Prodigy on Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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tobyw



Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 119
Location: Essex, UK

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:39 pm    Post subject:

I just noticed that in the moves section.

Whoops... just ignore me.
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Moon



Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 93
Location: Rome, Italy

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:43 pm    Post subject:

thank you imp

single palmspinning in both hands? uhm..I can do it..always looking the balls. Try to find a point under the balls and isolate pointing it..also try to isolate one hands at time, and then together..I've learn it with some problems, it's quite hard to do a good single palmspin iso..but you can do it

see you


moon
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Look!_This_Chånges!
Messing with Heads



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 753
Location: Underneath my ball

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:59 pm    Post subject:

When I Isolate a ball, I don't look directly at it, but rather through it or past it. Looking into the middle distance, as you will...

With the ball in my peripheral vision, it isolates better, as I'm not concentrating too much on one ball...

Practice with all different sizes of ball, and you'll get there. It is a practice makes perfect process, I'm afraid.
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Imaginary Miny Prodigy
thinks inside the box



Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 608

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:50 pm    Post subject:

<offtopic> I just realised i posted in the wrong forum, can some mod/mot please put it in the iso chamber?</offtopic>
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marco
Moderator


Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 474
Location: Alkmaar the Netherlands

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:53 pm    Post subject:

the name of the move imp is talking about is the claw isolation. or if done in a foreward swimming motion it's the jellyfish.

atleast those are the names I learned them under.
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Twisthem488
Holder of the Titanium Spork



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 1418
Location: Leon KS

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:28 pm    Post subject:

Yes size does matter. I find for most of my iso's (palm spin, claw, even edisons enigma) I have to learn them for each ball. Then again, maybe I'm just weird. Yes, iso's are a never ending process. Nothing really is because you can always get better, but I agree with you, I have fun practicing
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Fraxture



Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 644
Location: Central Ohio, USA

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:59 pm    Post subject:

Yep, my 4 inch Isos are all right, my 3 inch Isos are pure crap.
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Colin
It's Fruit of the Loom



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 2050
Location: UK, Hastings

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:07 pm    Post subject:

for the first question, do it really slowly. Take atleast 30secs to make a single rotation. move it millimeter by mm. you'll spot areas of weakness. Address those and you'll have a better isolation. Its easy ain't it. It just takes time and patience.

Ok 2 balls at the same time.... its hard to get as clean as you are with 1 at a time. I have a similar problem, I've been working with 2 ball a lot in the past couple months. I'm guessing I just need yet more practice

Well its been 3 years of me getting into isolation. And almost a year where I have been practicing them correctly. I've gone from whack isolation skill to the stuff you've seen in my videos, to fair bit better in the last 5 months. I have no doubt that some othrs will make much better, intelligent and faster progress. I was always heavy involed in other skills and practiced iso's in little intense spurts. I don't know if its never ending, But I haven't seen an end yet.

Quote:

With the ball in my peripheral vision, it isolates better, as I'm not concentrating too much on one ball...


(palm circle)
for me, just letting go is probably the hardest part of a really clean isolation. Its hard to describe to someone else, but when I perfectly isolate a ball, i do it from my shoulder. I 'turn off' my arm and especially the hand. If its not there then it can't create any bumps. Also, I make really sure that my hand moves completely horizontally. if that path is perfect then the ball will stay level and not move up or down. That seems like the most common bump in a half decent palm circle.

imo it doesn't matter what size or what kind of ball you use. Obviously tennis balls and stuff are a no go, But all the most commonly used balls, 3"-4" acryics and stage balls I have equal trouble isolating and have about the same results. I've spent 4 years with almost exclusively a 3" acrylic. they are sometimes cleaner than anything else. 3" stage balls, are tough for me and a bit wobbly. but that only tells me I haven't used that size enough. I could get that clean if I was tuned into that ball siz/weight.
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Morhandir



Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Posts: 88
Location: STL

Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:40 am    Post subject:

yeah, the best advice I know is to slow every iso down as much as you possibly can...It will instantaneously look like crap, but it'll be really easy to see not only where you're bumping, but also why.
For the double palm spin, I usually try to have the balls isolated one above the other, as opposed to next to each other. That way, not only is it easier to see both at once, but you can also use each ball as an additional gauge of how isolated the other one is. Then, once you have a better ability to feel the isolation, rather than needing to see it, having them isolated side by side is much easier.
I actually find that my 3.5" and 4" acrylics isolate much better than my 3", especially with palm spins and walks, but that's mostly due to the weight, not the size. The heavier the ball is, the more it will want to stay in the same place, and so the more forgiving it will be of minor bumps...Of course, it will also want to move down more, but I don't find that to be a huge difference.
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