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Half dance, half juggling, half mime, half magic....I'm a contact juggler, not a mathematician
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alarming trend in contact juggling
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Spare



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 195
Location: London

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:44 pm    Post subject:

Just my two pennies worth...

I'm basically a CJing newbie. I've been at it for less than a year, and compared to pretty much every other active member on this site, I suck big time (or so it seems at least). But I don't care, because CJing is wicked. It looks slick, it's fun, it's challenging, and I really love doing it, no matter how many drops or shakey stalls and isolations frequent my practice sessions.

I don't know where CJing is going. I don't even know where I personally want to go with it. I think body rolling is wicked, I like body popping/isolation work (although other forms of dance with CJ inspire me little), and whilst I've only just been able to get into multiball, from watching other people and videos, it excites me.

I enjoy the fact that I'm so new to this just as these various styles are developing. It means I get to pick and choose what I like, or try it all. I try and copy everything I see, often to little avail, partially to gain a decent knowledge base of tricks, but mainly to gain a good understanding of how my body works in conjunction with the acryllics, the nature of isolation, etc.

I will happily "rip off" tricks from anyone I see. How else am I gonna learn? I do as much contact as I can, because I'm not going sit down one day and suddenly think "I've thought of an amazing new style/trick/idea!". If that ever happens, it will happen when I am practicing contact, practicing moves I have copied off other people.

Even though I'm new to this, I never shy away from something because it is difficult. In fact, I go for difficult stuff, because once you pull it off (just learnt chestrolls, hugely pleased with myself) you know you are improving, and it's a nice feeling.
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simply_inexpugnable



Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Posts: 667
Location: Sammamish, WA, USA

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:30 am    Post subject:

Amen!

Complete and total concurrance.

I am basically in the same situation, except for the chestrolls, unfortunately (my goal for the summer), and I totally agree with the lucid and eloquent musings of Shifty.
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simply_inexpugnable



Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Posts: 667
Location: Sammamish, WA, USA

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:57 am    Post subject:

Wow, I'd love to read all this when I get the chance but right now I only have time to skim.

Kee in mind, my opinions are just that, opinions. And probably not valid at all, noting how little time I've spent contact juggling and forming (as Greg calls them) my own "esoteric philosophies."

Anyway,

Colin wrote:

Ask your self:
Why did I learn contact in the first place?
Who are my influences?
What do I want to do with contact?
Where do I what to take it?
Is this an exciting, interesting, unexplore direction?
I don't think theres easy answers or are easy to swallow.



1. I've always been the one who is on the outside of the group, and thus I look to see what there is that I can do that will not sweep me away in the river of mainstream. Contact juggling was by far the most damn awesomething I had ever seen, from any form (however disputed it may be) of the practice, to the practicioners themselves. I have always been an idea person, full of inspration, but lacking the initiative to carry anything to fruition. Contact juggling has instilled in me a passion that, truth be told, I can't remember having felt before. I haven't so much "learned contact" as learned from it.

2. My influences are everyone, from every video I've downloaded to every contact juggler I've met to every website I've sufed to every post I've read here. Contact juggling is more than just an ability the style of which can be influenced, it is an approach to reality wherein the influences change not our actions but ourselves.

3. Two answers, I want to become as skilled and proficient in contact as I can, and I want to see how it shapes my life and in turn shapes the lives of others around me. I have gained true friends through contact juggling and I want to see what connections will grow and what changes will be wrought.

4/5. It sounds cheesy and this is where you have full liscence to roll your collective eyes and sigh in exasperation at the peurility and triteness of my answer: As far as I can go. I know I sound like I'm taking the easy answer for a serious question, but I don't want to put a limit on my CJing by defing goals and setting boudaries on my aspirations. I will roll whichever way my interests and passions take me.

To end, I want to thank all of you who have shared input; it is truly inspiring/moving/(insert appropriate adjective here) to see your thoughs and beliefs.

Ben
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Last edited by simply_inexpugnable on Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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silver



Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 508
Location: bristol, south west england

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:26 am    Post subject:

i liked that post ben:-)

thanks
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Shyft



Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 3
Location: Gainesville

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:32 am    Post subject: Of Art and New Direction

Ok, new direction first...because you're more likely to read the rest of my post that way. I get the impression you feel there are more (or at least more valuable) skills learned in large body rolling and/or moves with a static body. I'd disagree here. Dance and CJ is its own skill with elements of both.

You're a mathematician, I'm an engineer, to we can get a bit technical.It's all about the calculus. How difficult would it be to write a rough equation for a chestroll? Pick your axes right and its an ellipse. Even a full body roll: piecewise relatively simple equations. Check out the ball path on some of those dance and cj routines. FAR more complicated. Faster too. Suddenly you have to account for the balls inertia, your inertia, the relative movement of the ball, your center of mass, and whatever part of you is doing the rolling. What this all boils down to is that your butterfly, chestroll, armroll, or whatever is not the same trick as it is standing. The positions your body takes are different, and the forces you're applying to the ball are _very_ different.

It works the other way to. Dance moves aren't the same with a ball. You have to adapt the moves to give yourself the right planes to roll on. Imagine removing the ball from the cj and dance routines...what's left is certainly not the "classic" form of whatever style of dance chosen.

There's also the idea of freestyling like this. The ability to not only follow a beat, but to spontaneously link dance moves and cj moves in a way that keeps you in control (trust me, if you're dancing with a cj ball and you lose it...it can FLY like you wouldn't believe!). There's a can of worms not fully addressed in _either_ discipline on their own.

In the end you've got a skill set that contains adapted cj moves, altered dance moves, and a new set of challenges to overcome. To me, that makes cj and dance far more than "doing 2 things at the same time." I can walk and chew gun at the same time, but neither activity is changed by it, so I wouldn't call it its own skill.

*whew*

As for art. I don't cj for art. I do it to entertain myself and others, as you said. But not everything is done for entertainment. There is information communicated in some forms of what you call entertainment. Paintings intended to evoke emotions or tell stories, prose that gives morals or symbolizes things other than what the words literally mean, and yes, dance that is more than a collection of meaningless body positions. Art goes beyond entertainment in that it carries far more information than appears on the surface. I am hard pressed to think of any medium that can express more data than a poem. A few dozen words can convey life lessons, social commentary, romance...the list goes on. Entertainment is face value my friend, art is everything that is underneath.

Shyft
"The things most people call impossible is just stuff they haven't seen yet."

PS - go for the pogo-sticking, man. I would be _thrilled_ if someone got that down, not concerned about the future of the art. Highly technical, you'd certainly get some popped eyes from the audience members, original; if that's not progress I don't know what is.

PPS - it occurs to me, a whole of of what we recoginze as "progress" wasn't seen as such when it came up. Just because something seems nonsensical to a few (or even most) people, doesn't mean it isn't good.
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Loves Christmas Day
(LCD)
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Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 939
Location: London

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:00 pm    Post subject:

I've done a mean isolation whilst on a giraffe uni (only cos the kids goaded me), anyone got a spare pogo stick..?!
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Colin
It's Fruit of the Loom



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 2071
Location: UK, Hastings

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:23 pm    Post subject:

I recall someone in the bjc vid Silver made years ago. he was isolating and waving while on rollerblades. Actually who is that silver? It was pretty cool for back then.
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Durbs



Joined: 05 Jul 2004
Posts: 113
Location: Nr Guildford, Surrey - England

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:41 pm    Post subject:

ncfiala wrote:

In the end, it doesn't really matter what my opinion is of isolation and dance based contact juggling. Most of it just really doesn't do anything for me and that's fine. I know that most of the contact juggling going on is probably not of this sort, but it seems that a lot of the people that have a real influence in contact juggling's development are proponents of this style and I just really don't see it's appeal. To many it seems that the combination of dance and contact juggling is natural and logical and you assume that it is to all, but it isn't to me.different directions so that there is something for everybody.


Ah ha

The thing is - every single person on this site is going to have a different opinion about what they do/don't like in CJ.

But not everyone starts a thread criticising bits they don't like, and by your own admission, you use blunt language and are, I feel, quite rude at times.

You've basically done a "People who like Marmite are idiots" thread... Everyone has an opinion - but you really don't have to shout out what it is

I think another problem you have is that as you say, all you've seen of CJ is what you've downloaded. Get out there - it really isn't all dancing stuff.
Maybe on here there's a majority of it (although none of the lessons are...) but this is probably because we all meet up offline to exchange ideas and put up videos to share what we've learnt.

I whole-heartedly agree that there's a lot more "types" of CJ out there, and proponents of these styles really should make vids and put them up here - but, truth be told, this is still a VERY small online community, with a (currently) very limited audiance.
Home of Poi which has something crazy like 20,000+ registered users having run for about 6 years - still doesn't scratch the surface of the true variety of poi and staff spinning around the world. Yet, even with that many users (say 1000 actively posting ones), there still are perceptions of a British/Australian/European/London "style" of spinning, which, after your first visit to a British/Australian/European/London spinning meet are usually completely shattered

Moral: Get out there, and meet other CJ'ers
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silver



Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 508
Location: bristol, south west england

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:50 pm    Post subject:

matt henem
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Morhandir



Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Posts: 88
Location: STL

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:59 pm    Post subject:

The thing is - every single person on this site is going to have a different opinion about what they do/don't like in CJ.

But not everyone starts a thread criticising bits they don't like, and by your own admission, you use blunt language and are, I feel, quite rude at times. [/quote]

However, reading through this thread (since I didn't log in while it was really heated, and thus missed being in on the earlier stuff) has caused me to think about what I'm doing with cj a lot more...It is true that everyone here has very different ideas about what cj is, but it doesn't really get mentioned that much, and no one really talks that much about their individual views...maybe out of a belief that since no one agrees completely, there's no point to discussing it. For all the minor flaming that started off this thread, I'm really pleased to see a thread where people actually are seriously discussing what they think contact juggling is and what it should be. So good job to ncfiala on getting people fired up enough to have such a good discussion.
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Durbs



Joined: 05 Jul 2004
Posts: 113
Location: Nr Guildford, Surrey - England

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 7:13 pm    Post subject:

oh yes - it's a good discussion, although for that purpose a "Where do you want to take your CJ?" post would've been nicer, as oppsed to attacking where others are taking theirs
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Colin
It's Fruit of the Loom



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 2071
Location: UK, Hastings

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 7:29 pm    Post subject:

Yeah I kinda agree with you there Durbs. Though I think this discussion would not have been as good if someone didn't play the role Ncfiala did. Its obvious that some of the stuff he said hit soft spots. Otherwise I don't think I would have come on so strong.
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Saulie



Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 191
Location: Norfolk, VA

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:30 pm    Post subject: Direction

I think that as long as CJing is moving... Not in the scence of how the CJer actuall moves, but in the sence that we continue to progress with new ideas and foundations... I do not care where that leads... Weither it be Dance CJ in a theatre setting(which would be sweet), or CJing while on a pogo stick...

In fact... I am looking for a pogo stick... Just because that idea has STUCK IN MY HEAD!!! (but I am soon to purchase some poweriser jumping stilts!! OH YEAH!)

I think that the day we as the CJing community stop developing new ideas and foundations is a day that is truly sad indeed...

But... At least I can sit back and know with comfort that this CJ community will never succumb to that...

Saulie
solitoj@hotmail.com
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Cameron



Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 865
Location: Toledo Ohio

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:44 pm    Post subject:

Powerisers Rock I love mine =) hehe but damn are they tireing fast... LOL =) SUPER WORK OUT real quick...
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daydream
MoM Mobsta



Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 750
Location: Vancouver

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:21 pm    Post subject:

everyone is entitled to shout their opinion - unfriendly or not.... I, for one, appreciate the honesty, and think the defensive behavior is a great statement of the fact that whatever direction everyone's going in, we certainly are passionate about it.

and marimite is grose
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