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Half dance, half juggling, half mime, half magic....I'm a contact juggler, not a mathematician
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A devastating realization
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StreetMage



Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 29
Location: Staunton, VA

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:49 pm    Post subject:

"The power of voodoo."

Anyway, it just seems like a hassle to have Michael Moschen crouched behind Bowie with his arms twisted into awkward, unbalanced positions doing each take over and over because he keeps dropping the balls when they could have taught Bowie to do it and saved some film. That's just me, though. I would think that with Michael Moschen as a teacher, a chimpanzee could learn sphereplay fairly quickly and with spectacular results.
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Drew



Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 1033
Location: Bristol UK

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:50 pm    Post subject:

Continuing the trend....
"Who doo?"

Su-Nami. Yes it is, and it was put up in UK, the designer paid privately to have it printed. But had a spot of trouble getting a company to put it up.
Its genius huh.

Mot you are a total hero. My very own LOLcat. Yay.
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Last edited by Drew on Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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daisylou



Joined: 24 Sep 2006
Posts: 640
Location: north wales

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:11 pm    Post subject:

i dont gettit lol
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FireMage



Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 163
Location: College Station, TX

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:16 pm    Post subject:

um, maybe david bowie had no actual interest in contact juggling. /me pauses for gasps to subside. But in all seriousness i am sure all of the possibilities where weighed and they came to the conclusion that having M.M. do it made more sense than any of the other avenues. Also, he could have tried to teach david bowie, and he was a crappy student; so they had the teacher fill in. plenty of things could have happened is the point, the real thing is that noone notices until after they hear about it. Which in itself is quite impressive.
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daisylou



Joined: 24 Sep 2006
Posts: 640
Location: north wales

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:22 pm    Post subject:

why would MM teach someone else his then unique skill/act?!
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Redster



Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 63
Location: Lincs, UK

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:05 pm    Post subject:

Yeah, I think daisylou has it there. From what I can gather about Moschen he certainly didn't seem like the sharing type back then and wouldn't want to pass on his secrets. For all anyone knew it was some kind of complicated secret art that would take years to get to a level in order to do the tricks Jareth does in the film. These days people know better and if CJ was being used in a film today then the actor would be sent off for 6 months of intensive CJ training much like they are with weapons training and physical fitness. But back then? I expect Moschen was perfectly happy to have people believe it was a complicated artform. Hell, I didn't get into CJ because of Labyrinth. I've known for years that it was Moschen who did it and just assumed that because they had to go to such great lengths to have him do it blind behind Bowie that it really must be that complicated. It was only recently when I was looking up CJ after seeing some Chris Murdoch stuff that I realised that a lot of people were doing it, and while it takes skill and practice and all, it certainly wasn't as complicated as I'd previously thought.

Besides... Bowie learning CJ would have been the easy route, and since when has anything about the Labyrinth been easy.
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StreetMage



Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 29
Location: Staunton, VA

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:09 am    Post subject:

Yeah, I guess you guys are right. I guess I was looking at it from the standpoint of an actor. I've been in theatre since grade school, and if I have to handle a prop or know a skill for a part, I usually try to actually learn how to handle that prop or perform that skill. If it had been me playing Jerith, I would have insisted on learning the art as long as someone had been willing to teach it to me. I guess Bowie wasn't really a full-time actor, though, even though he was awesome in that movie.
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Illumilatte



Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 536
Location: San Marcos, Texas

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:31 pm    Post subject:

There is also the fact that there is only a minimal amount of CJ in the film. It would still take awhile for Bowie to get it perfect and smooth...as well as getting it spot on while not looking at the ball? Those tricks are easy...but not THAT easy. Moschen doing it just makes more sense. That would be a lot of practice for...what is it? 15 or 30 seconds of film. Bowie isn't a juggler, and I am sure even with Moschen messing up a few times because of standing behind Bowie...well who knows how many times an amature CJer would've dropped the ball or blown his line
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StreetMage



Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 29
Location: Staunton, VA

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:18 am    Post subject:

"You do."
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Kenfucious



Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 28
Location: Tulsa, Ok

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:41 am    Post subject:

You know, I had the opportunity to bring this fact to light to a new found friend just yesterday. Labyrinth is her favorite film, and I reminded her of it while playing with my vinyl sphere (hmm, I wonder why it did..).

I thought she was going to cry. At first at least.. then she got into asking questions about the art itself.

Sphereplay, prostylitizing out into the world one Bowie fangirl at a time.
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khan



Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 54
Location: San Francisco

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:31 pm    Post subject:

I have a dirty little secret that I might as well come out with.

I've never seen Labyrinth! I've seen clips of it but have not seen the movie and thus, have not seen the cj sequences in the context for which they were intended. This movie has had no influence on me whatsoever as far as inspiring me to cj. I hope no-one thinks less of me.

It is on my ever-lengthening list of things to see though.
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Dizz
Not so Normal



Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 377
Location: Tucson

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:59 pm    Post subject:

Wow, a Labyrinth virgin.... *dumbfounded*
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seán_



Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 16
Location: England, Manchester, Leeds

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:20 pm    Post subject:

[quote="khan"]I have a dirty little secret that I might as well come out with.

I've never seen Labyrinth! I've seen clips of it but have not seen the movie and thus, have not seen the cj sequences in the context for which they were intended. This movie has had no influence on me whatsoever as far as inspiring me to cj. I hope no-one thinks less of me.

It is on my ever-lengthening list of things to see though.[/quote]

I haven't even seen the sequences*
So no direct influence on me either. I have only very recently seen little bit of Michael Moschen doing some Dynamic Manipulation. Which considering I first saw somebody contact juggling 15 yrs ago probably takes some doing.

Cue conversations like this over the years

'Ah contact juggling, Bowies really good at that!'

"Actually you'll find that that was Michael Moschen doing that from behind"

'Hmm, a common misconception, Bowie had all that stuff down then Moschen got wind of it being in the film from Pen Gilette, who knew one of the lighting guys, he was Michael Moschens juggling partner for years, they were the first to pass 9 clubs donchaknow? (the split came when one argued that juggling should be more magical and the other said that magic should be less magical)- anyhow up he rolls and gives it the old cease and desist unless I do it for 'it is I and I is it' and the film types are like 'whoa, bit late in the day to reshoot the whole thing with you as the lead' and there was a bit of back and forth with the artistic temperament on both sides getting a good airing until it was decided that Michael Moschen would do it behind Bowies back.
So they shoot that, and shoot that and shoot that because Moschen kept faffing around, first with the whole 'whats my motivation?' then 'it needs to be extended to 30 mins' then with the ever so accidental 'oops I didnt realise that when I sway from side to side the audience would be able to see me' then with the Michael and Moschen sterling silver I.D. bracelets. Factor in a fair few drops and a nightmare time for continuity when he'd stop to polish out some scratches only noticeable under studio lights.
Anyhow when the director had enough he gives it the old 'Cut, thats a wrap and print, beautiful Michael, beautiful you head of to publicity to work on the marketing.... Right ffs thank god he's gone... David baby we need you to do all that again like the pro you are, make it look a bit forced as if that blokes doing it from behind...whats that?...no cut out the strobing, isos and robotics he'll definitely remember not doing that and we need something for the sequel!'
So now you know...Talking about behind actors backs, have you heard the one about Nicole Kidman, Harvey Keitel, 'eyes wide shut' and method acting?'

"Labyrinth is beauty, Labyrinth is truth, Labyrinth is beauty, Labyrinth is truth, Labyrinth is beauty, labyrinth is truth Labyrinth is beauty, labyrinth is truth..."

'Sorry mate, didnt mean to upset you like that, stop rocking, have a pull on this... and I'll tell you about how many years Moschen tried to get somewhere bouncing rubber triangles inside a clear sphere'

---
*I have watched 'Dogs in Space' which has a bit where they fail to get into a Bowie concert.
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Wade



Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 83

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:56 am    Post subject:

StreetMage wrote:
My biggest question about the whole thing is why they didn't just teach David Bowie to contact juggle?


being that CJing was so unknown maybe MM wanted to be the CJer, and not a teacher
i dunno how big he was back then in the performing world but maybe being bowie's arm in the movie was a big enough deal for him

also, bowie is a singer, and a good one at that, he might not have had the patience to put up with learning CJing (as easy as it is for some of us.. others may find it incredibly hard)

bowie isnt a CJer and Santa spoils rich kids, tough it out big guy you'll be fine

edit: oops didnt realise there was a second page and just clicked reply... im sure what i said was already mentioned.. oh well./ love the sign of santa
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Zoc



Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 264
Location: San Diego, California

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:03 am    Post subject:

"Do what?"

I hear Moschen did teach Bowie and Henson for a while (there must be evidence somewhere)... but I can see why they'd just put Moschen out of frame like they did...
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