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XraySpeX



Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 132
Location: USA, MT

Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 4:06 am    Post subject: Palm Iso

I have really been trying to focus on my making my palm isolations look smooth and I find that I have a slight bounce in them. I believe it is when the ball comes over that fat part of my hand below my thumb.

I was just wondering if I should be rolling the ball in that big of a circle on my hand or if i should just roll it in a smaller cirle and avoid that part of my hand. Do you guys roll the ball in a big cirle around the paremater of your hand or do you roll it in a smaller circle?

Do you have any pointers for getting this bump out?

Thanks,
XraySpeX
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ThatBallGuy
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 6:09 am    Post subject:

Slow down the maneuver as much as possible. . .when you get the bump, move your hand down at the same speed the ball goes up, and then move the hand back up the same speed the ball goes down off the bump, and you'll isolate the bump.
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Fraxture



Joined: 06 Apr 2006
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:44 am    Post subject:

Yea I have been noticing that, I have seen that the hand breaks the plane in order to give the ball that smooth look. I have also seen some awesome isolations where people actually don't keep their hands truely flat, like in that isolation promo that just surfaced.
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lawrens



Joined: 12 Apr 2006
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:02 pm    Post subject:

Yes, in the "in isolation" promo vid, there is a few seconds of 4' palmspin iso...I watch several times to get it...and I must say it works well for me!
Kind of giving a little upward motion with the fingers, a "flap" during the counter-clockwise turn, just when the ball leaves the pinkie...

I allready learned something through those few seconds...Can't wait for the whole thing
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Colin
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Joined: 08 Jul 2004
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 2:53 pm    Post subject:

I beleive you are all refering to Pich in the In Isolation promo. He is NOT doing a palm circle. so don't think of what he is doing is the same thing. I believe its being called a vertical palm circle. Looking at that won't really help your palm circle.

Now for the palm circle.
I can do both big and small circles. I started out with the big extended circle and its been a bitch! but now its clean(not perfect though) and the small circle I use as a safe bet. Like using one small circle first when I transition from some other move to a palm circle. then by the next rotation I still have complete controll and can get right out to the extremeties of my hand. Looks a bit nicer. But not really a great deal nicer, because more often its not as clean because the circle is not a true circle, thus making it harder to isolate. Also the larger circle I do still never actually goes right up onto the far end of the palm heel. But it does go on it.

I'll have to disagree with everyone who is saying move your hand down to compensate for your bump. imo keeping your hand completely *level and moving it around very horizontally in a close to perfect circular motion as possible is paramount. It just makes things simpler and thus easier, quicker to get good.

*Now to address the keeping level. you wil never really be completely level the whole move. Example is when you get to that bump your talking about. try tilting your hand to the side very slightly. (thumb down pinky up) In fact as I'm going through this and analyzing my palm circle, I'm doing quite a complicated movement. I think my wrist is doing a very tiny rotation at the same time as my hand circles, I think its my wrist that is compensating for the bumps up and down, and the hand circling(there is elbow movent involed) is whats keeping it from going left and right. of course the 2 cross over into one motion.

Now after you have a really good palm circle, it becomes a bit of a mind game with yourself to making just freeze in space completely. I've done a perfect one here and there (Well I can't see how it can get more isolated at the moment)and I like to describe it in taichi metaphors.

I have to ghost my arm, and not 'give' anything to the ball. Any yang energy will create resistance and create bumbs. even if those bumps are 1/2 a mm and barely percivable. absorb every bit of contact the ball makes and return nothing. Now I bet all this will be piss easy in a year, and I won't need the ninja philosophy any more. but its what I'm using and its doing stuff to my isolation.

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best block, no be there. (Mr Miyagi)
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lawrens



Joined: 12 Apr 2006
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 6:17 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
I beleive you are all refering to Pich in the In Isolation promo. He is NOT doing a palm circle. so don't think of what he is doing is the same thing. I believe its being called a vertical palm circle. Looking at that won't really help your palm circle.


The fact is as soon as I tried to do this kind of upward movement of the fingers, my iso goes much better!
I like the way the hand moves like this, and the essential fact for me is that there is no bump right now...
But I'm concious that this is a very personnal way of progress: see something that inspire me, try it...if it works, I keep it. If not, no problem...

No hand is similar to another one, and sure something that works for me doesn't mean it works for everybody.

Is there any source anyway to a vertical palm circle?

Best,
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Colin
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Joined: 08 Jul 2004
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 7:43 pm    Post subject:

Quote:

Is there any source anyway to a vertical palm circle?

Best,


Besides the In Isolation promo, I can't think of any.

I think its the general concenus that the vertical palm circle is more difficult to get clean compared to a standard palm circle. Look at it again and you'll notice even super ninjas like Pich can't quite isolate it. that clip of it is still the cleanest one I've ever seen
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Arnar
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:56 pm    Post subject:

greg does a 2 ball verticle palm iso.
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XraySpeX



Joined: 13 Jan 2006
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:24 am    Post subject:

Cool, well thanks for the replies. I don't quite see what you guys are talking about in the promo but thats ok.

It seems I just need to slow down and watch myself real closely in the mirror. I guess tilting the hand or bringing it down are two different ways to do it and I will just have to try them both out to see what works best for me.

Thanks,
XraySpeX
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lawrens



Joined: 12 Apr 2006
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:04 am    Post subject:

Quote:
I don't quite see what you guys are talking about in the promo but thats ok.


You can see it at 0'35" to 0'38"...
It's only 2 seconds of this move I didn't know about: vertical palm spin
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Colin
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:48 pm    Post subject:

there is a topic for the vertical palm circle

http://www.contactjuggling.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=966&highlight;=vertical+palm+circle
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lawrens



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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:15 pm    Post subject:

Thanks Colin!
But I think someone should contribute a clip of a 1-ball vertical iso-spin...just to be sure of what it consists of...
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Arnar
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:27 pm    Post subject:

not what i meant exactly colin.
greg does this move alot it seems.... so what you do is you have a stage ball in each hand, then turn your hands in towards eachother. press the balls together, then iso them. its also in the moves section under 2b. i think its called the mineshaft roll or something like that
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lawrens



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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:45 pm    Post subject:

Yep Arnar, We as magis know this move too!!!
We call it "the walk-up", and I don't know who is the creator of this move...
Alan Wakeling did it in his famous billiard balls act, as well as the great Cardini I believe...
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Colin
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:53 pm    Post subject:

yes Arnar I know what your talking about. Not exactly sure what its really called, In my lingo it would be something like a "vertical 2b double palm circle".
As I've been calling a normal palm circle but with the other hand sandwiched on top just a "double palm circle" thanks to LTC.
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