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xdavidx



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 52
Location: Greensboro, NC

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:17 am    Post subject: Digression

it feels like I've gotten as far as I can which isn't far at all. I've been doing it since October and just can't see any foward progression at all, infact I'm seeing digression. I got the plam spin iso, but not I'm finding it harder and harder to do simple things like windshield wipers and the squeeze up iso that I was able to do just a few short weeks after learning CJ, sometimes I'm having hard time just keeping it in the cradle. I'm trying to do the cradle to cradle transfer and I can't get it done to save my life. Something I was starting to get not too long ago, but now it's like I've never tried it before.

Anyone had a problem like this? How did you get past it?
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PorcuBrine
Chitter-chattering, wee magical heather bear



Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 857
Location: Edinburrr

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:46 am    Post subject:

Welcome to your first plateau, I doubt there's a juggler out there who hasn't gone through a stage like this, I go through one every few months. During this time you'll probably not feel as though you're learning anything and you'll not be at all happy with what you can do.

I usually find that when I emerge, bleary eyed, from a plateau I've actually improved vastly at what I thought was rubbish beforehand, it's almost as though you're giving your brain a chance to catch up.

So ways to get past these down periods...Try a different discipline alongside your contact, maybe try some multiball or toss juggling, grab some poi or get stuck into contact staff. Cross training also benefits your overall ability and then you start to mix the things together, it's all good.

Also go back to basics, go through 'contact tango' as Drew describes it, to remind yourself of how to hold and move the ball. Practice walks, 1 ball curls, anything to get your co-ordination back.

Now for the unpopular suggestion...

Stick with the moves that you're learning, I've found that sometimes powering through the moves I couldn't get until I had them solid was the secret. Outside elbow stalls bugged me for months and months, then I spent 2 weeks doing nothing but, they came and I progressed, similar neck rolls, similar round the neck rolls.

Maybe that method won't appeal to you but that's how I deal with it. Good luck and well done on reaching your first plateau...ah the wonderful world of juggling.
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khan



Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 49
Location: San Francisco

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:51 am    Post subject:

hmmm...it seems like 'regression' is more the word you're looking for.

"Use it or lose it" is a saying that is highly applicable to cj. Did you not work on those other things while you were working on the isolated palm spin? That may be a factor. If you have been working on that other stuff still, how well did you get those things down? There's a big difference between just being able to do something and doing it cleanly and having it down so that it's second nature. Some would argue that until you're doing it cleanly and are at the second nature place, you haven't really 'got it' at all. You've only been cj'ing for two months which is a very short amount of time.

I'd advise patience and nailing the basics. And practicing a lot. A LOT.
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FireMage



Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 144
Location: College Station, TX

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:36 am    Post subject:

indeed, you have to practice every skill every day, if you want to stay in tune. I personaly have taken the play approach, where i dont really practice, i just play. I definatly notice the difference between me and some of my friends who practice a lot more than I at the particulars. They have a lot more technical tricks in thier hand bag, but my basics are nice and fluid, feeling more like a dance. I cant palm spin three balls to save my life, but i could do a couple hundred butterflies without ever losing the sphere i bet. If you want to be amazing you have to take the time to work on each item, hone and perfect it. And then as you are working on your next trick, go back and keep up with your history. This will enable you to keep that bag of tricks at your side and ready for any occasion.
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Jowze



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 168
Location: France

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:47 am    Post subject:

Either you reached your first plateau, or you got Parkinson...
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Colin
It's Fruit of the Loom



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 2071
Location: UK, Hastings

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:39 pm    Post subject:

I read the first 2 lines of your post. You've only been doing it since October. I wouldn't worry yet.

Usual advise- Train every day and come back to this topic in six months. a few weeks is not a long enough time frame to really judge whether or not you have a real problem. I think perhaps you are not concentrating like you were when you first started, or the initial "hey I HAVE to learn how to do that." buzz you get when you start has worn off. Either way training mind and body 90% of your waking life(and 100% of sleeping ) will surely change things around.
Or maybe you have been overtraining. A month really harcore and things will get weird .

Train something 3 times in a day and it'll improve. for as long as you can before you get bored, you mind wonders and you lose concentration. And as many days a week as you can. 4 days minimum for me. I am a slow learner.
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T0dd



Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 74
Location: Philadelphia

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:21 pm    Post subject:

If you were learning to play the piano, you'd expect to have to play just scales and arpeggios for a half hour a day or more, in addition to any actual pieces you might be working on. A half hour is a long time. Do you ever work on one move for a half hour straight, without interruptions, and without doing any other move? An hour? I think this is what Briney means by "powering through."

With any challenging practice, you get the past where it's all new and cool, to the place where it's tedious hard work. There are some moves that you can get the hang of pretty quickly, and the rest are, for most of us, a long road. I practice every day, but there are plenty of days when I don't do more than about ten minutes. It's better than nothing, but I know I won't make a lot of progress that way. If I want to master, say, the circle, I know I'll need to do at least a half hour at a time, doing several hundred reps and nothing else, to get it--long past the point at which it's fun. In fact, I'd say it's a good thing to get used to practicing *past* the boredom threshold. Every other practice I've tried has required that, because sometimes when you get bored, you relax, you relax conscious control a bit, and you suddenly find that you're doing it right.

And sure, you have to refresh your other moves too, but I'm talking about when you get to the point where you aren't making progress because the things you need to learn are simply too hard to come quickly.

Everyone's practice time is limited. FireMage says he feels he could do hundreds of butterflies without dropping. I think that's very cool and I want to be at that point as well. So there are some days when I don't work on anything new; I just try to consolidate what little I already have (and it isn't much). So I do butterflies or half-pipes while watching tv.

As for the circle...I can do it now, but it's ugly. That's because after I do the palm-to-palm transfer, I forget to bring my hand around for the back-to-back, so there's this stupid pause. Every time. Ruins the whole move. But I figure that's about a thousand reps away from acceptable.
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xdavidx



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 52
Location: Greensboro, NC

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:02 pm    Post subject:

[quote="Colin"]I read the first 2 lines of your post. You've only been doing it since October. I wouldn't worry yet.

Usual advise- Train every day and come back to this topic in six months. a few weeks is not a long enough time frame to really judge whether or not you have a real problem. I think perhaps you are not concentrating like you were when you first started, or the initial "hey I HAVE to learn how to do that." buzz you get when you start has worn off. Either way training mind and body 90% of your waking life(and 100% of sleeping ) will surely change things around.
Or maybe you have been overtraining. A month really harcore and things will get weird .

Train something 3 times in a day and it'll improve. for as long as you can before you get bored, you mind wonders and you lose concentration. And as many days a week as you can. 4 days minimum for me. I am a slow learner.[/quote]

I know, I'm still young in the whole grand CJ scheme of things, I've actually have some balls that I've played with for about 4 years, I learned how to do the windshield wipper with my right hand when I first bought those, but then kinda put 'em down for a while once I got fed-up with not learning with my left hand. This October is what I say is my first time taking it serious to learn.

I say that to just further emphasize the trouble I'm having. I learned the windshiled wipper those 4-5 years ago within a day and never forgot it, I'd pick the ball up and start doing 'em over and over and then put the ball down for several months etc. It wasn't untilrecently that I'm starting to have problems with even this simple move. That's why I was worried. It seems like once I started to add things like the circle is when I started to kind o decline in the ability to do a proper windshield wipper, or atleast several repetitions in a row without dropping the ball.
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galileo



Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Posts: 121
Location: Calgary

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:02 am    Post subject:

Yeah it happens to the best of us. I don't really see it as a regression of skill but rather a figurative haze that clouds our creativity. Alot of times we trap ourselves in paradigm for whatever reason. Move around to find inspiration, a different environment to play in. For me inspiration comes when I force myself out of my comfort zones and explore both externally and internally.
Listen to some new music, find another hobby (as was mentioned), go for walks often.
Hope that helps a tad, if it made sense even...
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(Forged Youth)



Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 17

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:25 am    Post subject:

i like hackin it up (hacky sack) when i get a little tired of cj'ing. Still havnt gotten tired of it for longer then like 20 mins though =/
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Illumilatte



Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 530
Location: San Marcos, Texas

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:59 am    Post subject:

I agree with the others...I doubt your knowledge is "lost" you'll probably "get it back" soon. Who knows...sometimes things like that happen to me and then I won't do it for a week and when I try again it's back.

I wish there were a juggling club or something like sphere camp around to meet weekly or bi weekly I'd practice a lot more. I hate "practice" I have ADD so I get distracted really easily and after doing something 100 times I'm no longer thinking about it I am thinking about everything else going on. I find it easier to practice or concentrate when other people are doing the same things I am...so you can talk and BS and learn together or whatever. But alas....no one I know wants to learn.
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hippypete



Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 23

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:12 pm    Post subject:

i get this in the morning, i wanke up and wana play, but seem to be crippled, it sucks cos i have to do something else for like 3 hours before i can pick up a contact ball, or else i break something or hurt myself.
i also had a mental block a few weeks ago. so i spent a week doing poi and double staff, worked wonders, im learning cj quicker now, all i can say is focus on something else.
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Look!_This_Chånges!
Messing with Heads



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 824
Location: Underneath my ball

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:03 pm    Post subject:

hippypete wrote:
i get this in the morning, i wanke up and wana play, but seem to be crippled, it sucks cos i have to do something else for like 3 hours




Sorry, this sentence made me laugh.
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