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Dizz
Not so Normal



Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 322
Location: Tucson

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:27 pm    Post subject: Working on skillz


Link

I've been working on more techniqually harder tricks and smoothing out the rest. Transitioning from one to the next is something I still need to work on. I filmed this so I can watch myself and fix mistakes. I was working with facial expression as well.

Tips? Opinions? Ideas?
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sylver_cat



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 107
Location: Montréal! yeah!

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:58 pm    Post subject:

I like it!

...but you're really too fast for me... (or is it me that's too slow??) I like your moves but I didn't feel a 'soul' in your ball. There's two moves you did that grabbed my attention very much : the 'jumping elbow stall' (eeerrr... not too sure about this name. It's on 1:09) and your palm-palm-back-back walk. So cute ^.^ I love them!

Thanks for the sharing, happy juggling
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Illumilatte



Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 415
Location: San Marcos, Texas

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:49 am    Post subject:

You're coming along nicely! I think slowing it down will make things look nice. Whenever I CJ I feel like I want to go fast because I know where the ball is going...but when I watch I like it at a slower pace so I can see what's going on.
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Dizz
Not so Normal



Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 322
Location: Tucson

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:11 pm    Post subject:

It's really hard to go slow. It is almost painful and I make more mistakes. Believe it or not, I DID slow down for the vid. heh I'll work on it. I stumbled on the elbow pop a few weeks ago and fell in love with it. Think the 'soul' would come with more isos or slowing down?

The p-p-b-b walk was actually tricky to learn because of the angle, hopefully I can isolate it soon.
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rollingphysics



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 7
Location: Isla Vista, CA

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:32 pm    Post subject:

I also like the elbow pop! It looks very nice done continuously like that - I hadn't seen that before. I like doing the reverse of this move - throwing and catching with the inside elbow. Throwing it in breaks some assumptions.

Slowing down does help you smooth out some problems - for instance, your "circle" move (around 2:16?) is a little disconnected - the ball kind of jumps from one palm to the other. Just rolling the ball from palm to palm for a while helped me smooth that trick out.

Nice job!
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silver



Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 439
Location: bristol, south west england

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:23 pm    Post subject:

Nice work, here's a few thoughts not directly connected with your vid, but relevant to my view of contact juggling and, if not helpful to you, helpful to me to write them down. bear with me.

image,parasitic motion, weight transfer, dead hands and speed
a few thoughts

image I'm using the word image to express what a person looks and feels like whilst they are doing contact. A blurred photo doesn't carry its meaning, things are lost. I'm in favor of clear focus (of course my contrary brain is now trying to conceptualize an impressionist version of contact...)
I would like to be able to contact juggle in a clear focussed way, with no movement out of place from me or the ball.
This would allow me to convey impressions(hmmm....)such as:- exuding a magical aura, showing off sheer technical skill and making people laugh.
in short, to entertain.

Along the way to this goal i have fought demons and i name them thus..actually no, i don't need to bring that up here, i have however noticed a few things. heres my take on them.

Parasitic motion, movements you don't intend, but they come about from what you are doing.

examples can range from moving your whole body to do a butterfly to little jerks of your empty hand while controlling a wobbly stall.

the emphasis here is on the unintentional aspects of movement, the bits you don't know about, but detract from the movements you are trying to focus on. whether it is the balls movement or your movement.
being aware of parasitic movement and controlling it, by neutralizing or adapting it will result in a cleaner look and feel.
parasitic motion can create a fuzziness, that blurs the whole image. I prefer clarity

weight transfer: how you move from one foot to the other. Leading on from above, being aware of how you are shifting your weight can make a big difference to the look of what you are doing, if the ball is taking you with it and your weight is moving willingly with it you have a feeling of connectedness, if you are resisting, moving your weight away from the ball you can set up stresses and conflicts that can be a lot of fun to resolve.
If you plant yourself like a tree you can project control.
unstable movement can add an element of impending disaster(note to self, must use this more)
unfocused movement leads to a blurred image. i like clarity.

dead hands/face

People watch the whole person, not just the ball. Whilst we play we normally just focus on what we are using at the time, i.e the relevant hand or arm (or head, i'm pretty sure i have gimp body syndrome while i'm learning headrolls ) This means that the rest of our body is doing what it likes(see parasitic motion above) and the face carries it's default of moronic vapidity(speaks for self)
We have the option of adding a lot to our overall image by using the unoccupied parts of our body. how far any individual wants to take this is entirely personal, what styles you wish to incorporate, for example, the ever popular liquid, robotics or classical indian, is up to you, but, please, if you're not using it, at least make it look like you know it's there! cos guess what, that dead hand/face blurs the image, and me, i really like clarity.

Speed pt1

Floating things don't tend to move fast. heavy balls do.
part of the magic, for me, is making one do the other.
Speed is a great tool for this.

speed pt2

At first we learn to do rolls quickly, because then there is less time for mistakes to become drops. a quick ball has more energy and is less easily deflected.(more or less entirely inaccurate, i'm sure i could do a more detailed analysis, but i'm lazy and this approximates to what you need to know:) )
as we acquire the subtlety required for stalls and controlled transfers we could slow down, though mostly we forget in the joy of doing, also a roll is just a way of getting from one transfer to the next, isn't it?
remembering the overall image will let us decide what speed would be good at any given time. Slow rolls, of course, take more work, but are a wonderful tool for expanding the range of expressive tools available to us.
In short controlling the speed allows us to show our control resulting in a clearer image. I love clarity.


final thoughts

control over yourself as well as the ball leads to a cleaner look.
this post mostly fixated on clarity of image, here's a few other things to throw into the mix that i'm not going to expand on here and now.
expanding the range of how you perform moves can open new areas of exploration.
exploring areas, take your moves out of their normal space(what does a butterfly behind the back look like?) and plane, ( i'd forgotten about forward/backward butterflies in both hands on and off sync, rubs hands in glee.....)
set yourself limiting rules, such as i must have 2 points of contact on the ball at all times or i must never obscure the ball from a certain point of view
if you perceive something as a rule, break it. (apart from the one about looking into the sun through an acrylic, maybe. i've seen it done and it's not pretty.)
what do you mean i can't throw/drop/bounce/use the floor in contact?
play
stop reading this damn post and go play, damn you
stops typing and goes pl
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cant_think_of_a_name



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 82
Location: UK

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:27 pm    Post subject:

Awesome post silver. Its weird that having been contact juggling since about march, it never occurred to me to pay attention to what the rest of me is doing. The first thing I'm going to work on is keeping my feet still because having had a quick practice for a minute, i move them about a bit (and not in a good dancey way).
Thanks
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Look!_This_Chånges!
Messing with Heads



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 711
Location: Underneath my ball

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:51 pm    Post subject:

Silver, A mighty good post.
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Kitsune_Whisper



Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 59
Location: Hickory, NC

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:26 pm    Post subject:

as far as body movement, that is one area I ahve been working on.

I have actually been trying to model a routine on tai chi katas. so that my whole body is focused on movement with the ball. Its so focused that it makes for a different feel.
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Look!_This_Chånges!
Messing with Heads



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 711
Location: Underneath my ball

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:41 pm    Post subject:

Just be careful of falling into the trap of concentrating too much on your body, and not enough on the ball.
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Kitsune_Whisper



Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 59
Location: Hickory, NC

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:48 am    Post subject:

It is a danger. the body movement is so fluid and sometimes so slow, that it doesn't translate to CJ.
I'm having to re interpret a few katas.

I'll definitely video it in a few months when i have it down

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Dizz
Not so Normal



Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 322
Location: Tucson

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:00 pm    Post subject:

I love that advice silver and everybody. Thanks for helping me with a goal to work on. Funny thing is, I've been advised before not to be so stiff.
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