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 Learning Aids
Author: Axl Rose 
Date:   05-29-02 05:51

Alright I want to state right here and now that I in no way encourage any of you to start taking drugs, they are bad for your health and can become addicting.
I am an experimenter of sorts and have found that while under the influence of certain light hallucinagens and herbal mixtures my ability to perform becomes enhanced and I learn many tricks more quickly. I have many crackpot ideas about why this is so but was looking for enlightenment in this area of brain-chemistry. I believe the increased ability may be due to heightened sense of feel, rapid short-term memory loss that may relate back to muscle memory theories, or the fact that I become childish and it is proven that children learn faster (I really doubt that one, but one of my friends mentioned it to me). Also I have much more creativity and have come up with some cool new moves recently.
I know this is a very touchy subject but I would really appreciate enlightenment. side-note: Someone once told me that many jugglers use drugs. This I have trouble believing and I think the person jumped to the conclusion without much basis.
Thankyou for any insight.


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 Re: Learning Aids
Author: Brad 
Date:   05-29-02 07:49

I don't think it's limited to jugglers, seems to me like many PEOPLE use drugs.


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 Re: Learning Aids
Author: silver 
Date:   05-29-02 14:17

yep, turning off your brain is a sure-fire winner for improvement..............


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 Re: Learning Aids
Author: mdamelio 
Date:   05-29-02 15:40

Well Axl I personally have never tried any drugs, but I have heard what you are saying before. And I can also attest to the fact that many jugglers I have met do drugs, most of them didn't go any heavier than herb, but some did. I have also been told that under the influence of marijuana people tend to get much more creative. I know a couple guys in a band that swear that they are more creative when high. A question I would ask is that do you actually get better, or is your bodie's sensation so hightened that you feel like you are better? Do these really amazing tricks seem so amazing when sober? Those are the questions I've always wondered. I personally feel that if it is possible to be so much more creative while high then my body has that potential in it somewhere and I'm sure there is another way to tap it without killing off my beloved neurons. I'm curious to know what drugs you have tried that were beneficial and which weren't and also some answers to those other questions. Interesting topic I must admit, I'm sure it has some potential to be a bit controversial but hell we haven't had one of those in awhile so why not.

~Mickey


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 Re: Learning Aids
Author: Steve C 
Date:   05-29-02 15:59

Ah yes. Un-PC topics - lovely!!

I've CJed whilst on various bits and bobs and without a doubt my abilities are improved. Whether it be because my sense of touch is more accute or I am more focussed I don't know, but a chemically enhanced mind definately makes way for quicker muscle learning.

Alcohol, on the other hand, just makes way for dented feet...

Steve


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 Re: Learning Aids
Author: pirkwein 
Date:   05-29-02 16:45

About alcohol it's true, after a few drinks it's impossible for me to do somthing (toss or contact) I don't know about other drugs, bu ti think it depends mutch on what you take (since alcohol is also a drug).


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 Re: Learning Aids
Author: michael glenn 
Date:   05-29-02 17:43

I have found that psycadelic's are definatly helpful in increased skill level and creativity with the spheres. I believe that they allow you to play in a very different perspective, which enables one to create differently than they would while being sober.

Marijuana I don't consider a drug, it's an herb that has been around and used throughout the history of mankind. I also find it a source to help with the creative process.

Alcohol and balls don't mix!

This is not to suggest that one uses these things because of what I say, just some personal observation.

Also, a good % of the jugglers I know smoke pot but don't do anything "harder".

Be Well,
Michael


balls of lightning rolled along...


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 Re: Learning Aids
Author: Floater 
Date:   05-29-02 19:00

Indeed, I believe marijuana and psychedelics can enhance creativity, perception, and ability if used correctly. They are very powerful tools that should be used with respect and rightful intent. I think what you said is right though Mickey. Anything truly worthwhile that these substances can lead you to, I believe can also be found without them. Be safe.


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 Re: Learning Aids
Author: Floater 
Date:   05-29-02 19:28

Another thought. In light of never knowing how these substances might effect a certain individual and their individual life experiences and perceptions, I can only say be wise and remember these things are still illegal in many places in the world. I also have heard that for physiological reasons, it is good to not experiment with such substances before the age of 18 to 20 or in great abundance.


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 Re: Learning Aids
Author: marco 
Date:   05-29-02 19:45

I would like to add that if you are going to undertake in a little experimenting with this, to do it in presence of people you utterly trust and who are not using themselfs when you first try it.
This stuff can have bad adverse effects and friends who can support you if you fall in an emotional dip becouse of the usage will be helpfull.
But I agree alcohol does not work with CJ
I've done some pod, and that had a definate good effect on my CJ. Can't do no more though I'm looking into getting a job in USA and they all have drugs tests before hiring somebody.

marco


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 Re: Learning Aids
Author: Lance Coombes 
Date:   05-29-02 21:21

Well, I guess I'll pipe in with my experiences. I have very limited experiences, however. I have been drunk exactly once in my life and found that I COULD juggle and cj, but not very well at all. I also take lsd once every two years and have found that it, too, greatly reduces my abilities. Although, everything sure LOOKS much cooler!!! Just a simple butterfly is mind boggling! Heehee. Other than that, I have nothing to share. I have never smoked pot, taken stimulants (other than caffein) or done anything else. Other than that one night every other year, I'm very much a goody-two-shoes.

--
Imagine that there is some clever signature here.


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 Re: Learning Aids
Author: morg 
Date:   05-29-02 21:41

well. I must say that i believe some chemicals definately make contact juggling easier and more profound. im speaking mainly of psychedelics here, and in relation to myself alone. however, the time i have spent juggling while tripping has always left me feeling as though i have "cheated" somehow. everything becomes so much easier. the fluidity that normally comes after juggling for several hours...comes in about ten seconds, and is 20 times more smooth. overall, my experiences were inspirational. but they did not let me learn new tricks so much as come up with new ideas. everything goes away after the drugs wear off. not the ideas but the increased ability. it is sort of like a preview of where i might be if i had another year's worth of practice under my belt.

i am in no need of inspiration right now. just practice...finally. like to give the disclaimer like every1 else. im not saying do drugs. im saying they have their use. their place. and that varies greatly on an individual level. their role is also more frequently abused, than respected. overall, they are not necessary, and their use is therefore a handicap in comparison to those who can acheive the same goals, independent of chemical crutches.

personal account


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 not a drug?????
Author: silver 
Date:   05-29-02 21:55

I'll remember that next time i spin into a whiteout after smoking a bit of "herb"..........


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 Re:
Author: mdamelio 
Date:   05-29-02 22:06

K so we know not to do drugs, noone here is advocating doing drugs, personal experiences only. Nobody take the advice of people on here as far as doing drugs goes, it's your own oppinion and you do so at your own risk. I think I took care of the disclaimer now for the posts that will follow, so be free with your ideas, I'm sure interested since I've never personally partook so to speak. But everyone keeps taggin there posts with don't do drugs, so I thought I'd make it more simple so that you can use those extra keystrokes for some more info on your wild adventures. Can't wait to read more.

~Mickey


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 Re: Learning Aids
Author: silver 
Date:   05-29-02 22:11

I'll second that having first hand experience of mental deteriation due to overuse of canabis...............

.......and having a mate taken to the loony bin after too much acid.......

......play, do drugs, but don't bitch that you weren't told........

.......and why DO athletes take drugs.....

......just random stream of consciousness stuff.......

..if you can't be good be careful....

......mindless cliche......

....boring platitude......

.....blah, stoned ramble, blah......

....where did i leave tha.........

.......what was i saying........

........nah mate, i don't do drugs..........

....see ya then......

..Silover...


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 Re: Learning Aids
Author: Androo Wood 
Date:   05-29-02 23:51

as far as drug go i haven't done anything. however, i am well "versed" in the art of using stimulants. i.e. i take ritalin for medicine and i know what it'll do on overdose. what i find happens on a person to many stims: your mind moves faster than your body, or your body moves faster than your mind. varies from person to person. neither of these are particularly condusive to CJ. since it requires both your mind and your body.


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 Re:
Author: Axl Rose 
Date:   05-30-02 02:36

Wow! You guys are really reasonable people, I was waiting for my account to be deleted and this post torn off but I must say I am proud!

Yes, it does help you learn. I watched as my friend learned the butterfly in about thrity minutes while completely stoned. Earlier that day he could barely toss the ball back and forth in cradles. A legal drug that I must say none of you should ever try unless you are not doing anything for the next week and don't mind feeling really bad is nutmeg. I must say that for some reason after smoking mass quantities of it I become more focused. It helps me prolong my practice because either my sense of time is screwy or the fact that I can't go to sleep and have nothing better to do.
I agree that sometimes afterward I feel as if I have cheated myself in someway. That feeling soon subsides though because I enjoyed the experience just as I enjoy normal practice. In CJing I find some sort of spirituality and while on drugs I become very internally focused and when the two are put together I find bliss and an experience not unlike a midnight worship service. I have been wanting to try peyote and CJing but my spirituality garden still has many a year before I may feast upon enlightenment so I was wondering if any of you might be able to tell me what it is like?
I thankyou again for all your input.


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 Re: Learning Aids
Author: Veikko Sariola 
Date:   05-30-02 11:54

Hi,

I've tried juggling under the influence of several drugs, and I must agree that at least some of them (mainly pot) have helped me to learn faster. It's a very usual that before we go to practice, we first smoke a joint. Pot helps me relax and keeps me from getting frustrated when I'm trying a new trick and dropping all the time.

Psychedelics are little different. I have found that I can get more easily to "the zone" (as Ferret calls it) but they work also the other way around; My thoughts can wander elsewhere in just matter of seconds and suddenly I lose it again (whoa what's that morphing letter doing on that wall ;).

Ecstacy, well, your best off juggling numbers :) And you'd probably have more fun dancing and talking your inner secrets to people so why even bother...

Alcohol and juggling don't mix. Dot.

One weird thing worth mentioning happened to me one time I was tripping on acid. It all started so that, well, we took absolutely too much of it. I was freaking out and crying, because I was pretty sure that I'd be ready for the mental hospital. When my friend had talked to me for while and got me to chill a bit (I was still sure that I had gone mad, but didn't think that crying or anything would help), I suddenly grabbed my acrylics (like an instict), and started doing palm spinning. I sit there for a moment, just spinning them, and after a while, started doing butterflies, body rolling and tossing. It was the juggling that convinced me "that I can still do something; that I can still function somehow" and helped me to recover from the frightening psychosis I was experiencing. After a while (and a relaxing walk outside), I found the trip pretty pleasant and enjoyed the ride.

Hmm... make your own conclusions from that...

(insert the usual drug disclaimer here; see earlier posts)

- Pestis / Veikko


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 Re: Learning Aids
Author: Steve C 
Date:   05-30-02 14:31

Lance, I'm intrigued...

What is this rare occassion that merits the use of lsd? A special juggling convention? Or (from a quick browse of ookyspooky.com) is it a Nightmare Before Christmas Convention?

I can picture it now. Jack Skellington tripping out his box in a corner while Sally feeds 'deadly nightshade' to the rest of the townsfolk...

hehehe

Steve


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 Re: Learning Aids
Author: michael glenn 
Date:   05-30-02 16:04

This is a facinating topic, I've been wondering for a while now on what other sphereplayers views on drugs were. Now I know a little more.

I also wanted to touch upon the "cheated" feeling after tripping. I have never felt cheated or that I was cheating while using psycadelics. I also believe that my "level" had increased for that period of time and that I though about things differently. I have even felt that I had jumped a year or two in my practice time, and when I came "down" I was overall elated at the sneak preview I had just expereienced. It inspired me to practice more, because I had more of a sense at where I was headed. Although I couldn't re-create all the moves, the new thoughts and ideas were still with me.
No more disclaimers.

Be Well,
Michael

balls of lightning rolled along...


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 Re: Learning Aids
Author: Lance Coombes 
Date:   05-30-02 18:44

Heheheh. Nah. It's nothing special. I'm just not that into doing drugs. I'm screwy enough as it is. The once every two years thing isn't on a specific date or anything. I allow myself to partake once every even numbered year. It just keeps me paced and ensures that it is always a special event. And if you had ever seen me trip, you'd see that I don't react to it like most people. Generally, there are others around who are also tripping and I almost always become their entertainment. They sit around asking, "Did he take the same stuff we did? 'Cause DAMN!!!! He is completely off his nut!!!"

I don't know why I react so strangely, but it sure is fun! But tireing. And if I did it more often, I'd feel bad about myself. Partially because I become a total raving idiot. Heehee.

--
Imagine that there is some clever signature here.


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 Re: Learning Aids
Author: Steve C 
Date:   05-30-02 23:28

Ha! You nuttjob. ;)

I've never done lsd myself and from hearing of others' experiences, it's something I don't think I'll ever try. I'm the same as you, careful about what I do but making sure that each experience is lived to its full potential. On more than one occasion I've had people tell me to shut the hell up.

gibber, gibber, gibber...

I'll shut up now.

Steve


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 Re: Learning Aids
Author: mdamelio 
Date:   05-31-02 00:14

Hey Lance Buddy this is your year then 2002 BABY!!!! OH YEAH!!!! You'll have to tell us how it goes. 2 is an even number internationally right? I'm just a stupid american and we don't use the metric system not that that is relevant at all.....

~Mickey


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 Re: Learning Aids
Author: michael glenn 
Date:   05-31-02 01:23

If this is the year for Lance, then CJC02 may be more interesting than I thought :>)

Michael


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 Re: Learning Aids
Author: mdamelio 
Date:   05-31-02 01:33

I don't think he can make it, he needs a sponsor.

~Mickey


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 Re: Learning Aids
Author: Axl Rose 
Date:   05-31-02 02:55

Well, I must say, this being my first post and one I long debated putting up I am being downright fatherly about it. Oh well.
Another thing I enjoy doing is practicing with a strobe-light on while high. It keeps me from getting too cocky because I have to really concentrate on the ball or I will lose it. I am still trying to decide whether I get better over all or just for the short period that I am high. I am still trying to find the exact reason why abilty is so heightened, a good place for information on the chemical effect of drugs on the brain is www.erowid.org . Just in case you were curious, "just say know" as they say!


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 Strobe Light
Author: Rich Shumaker 
Date:   05-31-02 05:12

I would use a strobe light in my shows when I had one that worked.

I would always wear sunglasses and close my eyes. Juggling blind was the easiest way to CJ because they would increase and decrease the strobe light and make me go backwards by changing the light. Also you can get spotty eyes after a while starring at a strobe light.

I once was CJing and I made the comment that this must look cool on Acid. The chick on the other side of the room said,"It sure is."

Rich Shumaker
The Other Contact Juggler
Rich@ContactJuggling.com
www.ContactJuggling.com


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 Re: Strobe Light
Author: Arron 
Date:   05-31-02 16:48

Don't have much in the way of experience to share but I will state that if anyone has worked on the psychology of learning they might be a little nervous about experimenting with narcotics in general.

There is no doubt in my mind that taking certain drugs can relax you, can help you concentrate and can enhance your creative experience but it could also impede your process of learning, which I assume is something that most of us don't want.

State learning is a phenomena where an activity that is learned under a certain state, can only be repeated in that state.

A good friend of mine graduated with a degree in molecular chemistry from University of Notre Dame. Now to put it simply the guy was a little "Stoney," you know "wake and bake," he probably didn't have two days go by where he didn't engage in at least some minor consumption of pot. Well that is fine in college, smoke all you want. He did really well in school too, graduated with a high, no pun intended, GPA. In fact he did so well that Lilly, a major drug manufacturer, with a plant in Indianapolis picked him up right out of undergrad, not bad I thought, since most of us went off to less than lucrative positions answering other peoples phones. But, there was a downside, as he quickly discovered, after smoking for the better part of four years, taking all his classes and homework in an "enhanced state," he had to get straight and sober real fast. Obviously a lot of companies do drug test, and Lilly did, but by that time he was clean. On his first day of work at Lilly, he sat down to do some simple lab work and couln't remember how to put together a growth solution in a Petri dish. After a while he realized that there were a lot of things that he couldn't remember quite how to do, sterilize a test tube, write down lab results, little stuff. The problem was that he learned everything in that state, basically high, and about the only way that he could remember how to do it again was when he had a J in his hand. Anyway that is a phenomena called state learning, you learn something in that state, you need to be in that state of mind to recreate that action.

Certainly there are countries where certain drugs are legal. Certainly a lot of people, and many artists and athletes, that I have known do experiment with drugs to improve their creativity and performance, but I honestly believe that in the long term the gains that you make whilst straight and sober will be there in the long run, a temporary fix is really only temporary.


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 Re: Strobe Light
Author: Axl Rose 
Date:   06-01-02 08:57

MaybeI don't experience the same experience some of you seem to have trouble with: "it all goes away" because I practice until sober and then continue practicing. Helpful hint right there- if you do try it tell me if it works for you too.


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